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| (1505802) | |
Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 4 12:13:45 2019 Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trainsThe first Metro trains to automatically open their doors in years have been operating on the system over the past two weeks, as Metro conducts testing and calibration before restoring regular use of the auto-doors feature. The automatic door opening feature is part of the original design of the Metrorail system, but its use was discontinued years ago – along with automatic train operations – due to reliability problems and overriding safety priorities. When in automatic-door mode, the train receives data on its exact location from transmitters located on the track. After the train comes to a complete stop and is confirmed to be properly “berthed” at the platform, the doors are automatically opened on the appropriate side of the train. Returning to automatic door operations has two significant benefits. First, it enhances safety by removing the potential for human error resulting in a “wrong side” door opening. Metrorail operators initiate an “open doors” command more than 20,000 times each weekday. While rare, there have been instances where operators have temporarily lost awareness and accidentally opened doors on the wrong side of the train, something that the automatic system prevents. Use of the automatic system also improves the customer experience. Following a series of wrong-side door incidents several years ago, Metro began training operators to pause several seconds prior to opening the doors. The pause was meant as a behavioral safety check to reduce the risk of a mistake. However, for customers, there is now a delay of several seconds between the train arriving at the station and the doors opening. When using the automatic system, doors will open as soon as the train is stopped at the proper location. Train operators will continue to have responsibility for closing doors at all times. Additional testing will be conducted over the next several weeks, along with ongoing train operator familiarization. If all goes well, Metro expects to return to systemwide use of the auto-doors feature later this year. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 13:55:21 2019, in response to Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Mar 4 12:13:45 2019. It should be noted the automatic train protection subsystem that prevented wrong side or off platform door openings be it automatically or manually was also disabled because of a reliability issues. Many of the wrong side or off platform door openings that have occurred during the period time manual door opening has been done would likely have never happened had this subsystem not been disabled because the subsystem was not malfunctioning 100 percent of the time.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 4 14:13:46 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 13:55:21 2019. Does the system prevent door opening of an 8 car train at the 6 car marker, or do they always front justify the spot even in automatic mode ? |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 4 18:36:09 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 13:55:21 2019. Did the subsystem ever prevent a legitimate door opening? If not, I can't see why it would be disabled, even if it was imperfect. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 4 18:53:54 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 4 18:36:09 2019. Legitimate door opening prevented: irritated passengers; peevish letter to the Daily News.Wrong-side or beyond-platform door opening: potential for injury or worse. and ensuing lawsuits. Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 4 18:54:29 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 4 18:36:09 2019. Legitimate door opening prevented: irritated passengers; peevish letter to the Daily News.Wrong-side or beyond-platform door opening: potential for injury or worse. and ensuing lawsuits. Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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| (1505890) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 4 19:03:11 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 4 18:53:54 2019. Why would a Washingtonian write to the Daily News? |
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| (1505896) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 4 19:37:53 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by italianstallion on Mon Mar 4 19:03:11 2019. Okay, ya got me. But I imagine there's some equivalent tabloid letters-to-the-editor column in DC? If not, well, lucky them.Alan Follett South San Francisco, CA |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:02:32 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 4 14:13:46 2019. Does the system prevent door opening of an 8 car train at the 6 car marker, or do they always front justify the spot even in automatic mode?Yes, as an 8 car train stopping at the 6 car mark would have 1 car off the platform and the doors would not open. Front justify more commonly identified as a long stop was implemented for 6 car train in manual mode because some operators operating 8 car trains thought they were operating 6 car trains and would stop at the 6 car mark leaving the last car off the platform. With the door protection subsystem disabled there was nothing preventing that 8 car train from opening its doors even though the last car was off the platform. In automatic mode the train know how many car it has and will center stop, 8 car 8 car mark, 6 car 6 car mark. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1505904) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Mar 4 21:04:38 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:02:32 2019. I was under the impression they were trying to force trains of all lengths to pull up to the 8 mark? Did they see reason and actually go back to using the proper locations? |
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| (1505905) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:06:46 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Mar 4 18:36:09 2019. Did the subsystem ever prevent a legitimate door opening? If not, I can't see why it would be disabled, even if it was imperfect.To my knowledge no. And if it did the operator could disable the door protection subsystem with the flip of a circuit breaker. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1505906) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:14:11 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Mar 4 21:04:38 2019. I was under the impression they were trying to force trains of all lengths to pull up to the 8 mark? Did they see reason and actually go back to using the proper locations?Long stopping of 6 car trains is not mentioned in the press release so I think we can safely assume they are still doing so in manual mode with automatic door opening. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:19:10 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Alan Follett on Mon Mar 4 18:53:54 2019. Wrong-side or beyond-platform door opening: potential for injury or worse. and ensuing lawsuits.To my knowledge no injurys resulting in lawsuits have happened as the result of a wrong side or off platform door opening. For the record I have been aboard trains where both have happened. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Mar 4 22:53:06 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:14:11 2019. Ah ok, thanks! |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 15:12:35 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Mon Mar 4 21:14:11 2019. Correct, trains are still in manual mode and all trains stop at the head end of the platform. Rumor has it that (unfortunately) all trains will continue to stop at the head end, even when ATO is restored.FWIW, I think they should adopt a policy of having all manually operated trains stopping at the head end of the platform while trains using ATO stop at the designated car marker. Alternatively, with the door protection system back online, even 6 car trains in manual operation could stop at the 6 car marker. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 5 15:47:41 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 15:12:35 2019. Why can't they install signs indicating where to stop for given lengths of train like in NY? |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Mar 5 16:44:39 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 5 15:47:41 2019. Just speculating but if we're dealing with a system that makes T/Os wait several seconds to ponder that they are opening the doors on the correct side, then it would totally make sense to me that they don't trust them to stop at the right marker. |
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| (1505991) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 5 19:30:36 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 5 15:47:41 2019. Why can't they install signs indicating where to stop for given lengths of train like in NY?Most if not all of the stations have them. most are tucked up under the edge of the platforms. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1505992) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 5 19:31:25 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 15:12:35 2019. Thank you Oren.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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| (1505993) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 5 19:41:29 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 5 19:30:36 2019. Then why not use them? |
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| (1506002) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 5 20:56:55 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 15:12:35 2019. Rumor has it that (unfortunately) all trains will continue to stop at the head end, even when ATO is restored.This is what I was afraid of. I noticed last time I was there they had started putting stickers on some platforms to indicate the end of 6 car trains 150' from the rear. The benefit of instead using the actual stop locations is that during single tracking, the trains will still stop in roughly the same place, so theoretical stickers placed to mark the spot will be accurate at all times. |
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| (1506015) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:28:08 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 5 20:56:55 2019. There isn't so much single tracking that this is regularly an issue. I'd say the bigger issue is at terminal stations (especially Silver Spring but the others as well to a lesser extent) where you have no idea which direction the train might come from, throwing off your attempt to "prewalk" to where you want to be at your destination station. |
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| (1506016) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:28:42 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 5 19:41:29 2019. Some of us have been asking that question for about a decade (!) now. |
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| (1506017) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:29:15 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 5 19:30:36 2019. Some of the ones added at stations where trains didn't stop at the center (i.e. White Flint) have been removed however... |
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| (1506018) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:31:34 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Mar 5 16:44:39 2019. The current situation on Metrorail would be akin to if NYCT took down all of the "zebra boards" and disabled all of the door enablers overnight and then dispatched the C/Rs to do their job with no failsafes. My guess is you'd have an incident in NYC within a matter of time as well.IIRC NYCT operates trains of a consistent length on each line so that T/Os always stop at the same location. WMATA trains vary by length on 4 of the 6 lines. |
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| (1506042) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Mar 6 07:53:24 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:31:34 2019. IIRC NYCT operates trains of a consistent length on each line so that T/Os always stop at the same location. WMATA trains vary by length on 4 of the 6 lines.And an operator will likely operate trains of different lengths during a shift on those 4 lines. Never mind the display on the console that defines the train length. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 6 13:41:08 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:28:08 2019. You're welcome. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 6 13:51:11 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:28:42 2019. You're welcome. |
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| (1506065) | |
Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 6 13:51:24 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:29:15 2019. You're welcome. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Mar 6 13:51:36 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Mar 5 23:31:34 2019. You're welcome. |
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Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 6 17:07:36 2019, in response to Re: Metro begins testing automatic door operations on passenger trains, posted by Sand Box John on Tue Mar 5 19:30:36 2019. A few NYCTA lines also had the cars stop markers under the platform. |
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