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| Riding The Second Avenue "El" (1425285) | |
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| (1425285) | |
Riding The Second Avenue "El" |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 25 10:16:09 2017 
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 14:18:22 2017, in response to Riding The Second Avenue "El", posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 25 10:16:09 2017. Does anyone here know why the 2nd Ave express only ran to Freeman St? Was this always the original terminal for this route, or was it 180th St-Bronx Park? |
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| (1425321) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 14:18:32 2017, in response to Riding The Second Avenue "El", posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 25 10:16:09 2017. Does anyone here know why the 2nd Ave express only ran to Freeman St? Was this always the original terminal for this route, or was it 180th St-Bronx Park? |
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| (1425332) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 14:44:07 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 14:18:32 2017. IRT maps distinguished between el and subway services.This map (colorized, but the services are original) shows that elevated services only went as far as Freeman Street. I don't know why. 
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Jan 25 15:00:06 2017, in response to Riding The Second Avenue "El", posted by Bill Newkirk on Wed Jan 25 10:16:09 2017. 5 drooling stars out of 5 drooling stars.chud1. :)..... |
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| (1425341) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 15:20:49 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 14:18:22 2017. Does anyone here know why the 2nd Ave express only ran to Freeman St? Was this always the original terminal for this route, or was it 180th St-Bronx Park? Elkeeper: The original service on the West Farms Line was provided by both the 2nd and 3rd Avenue Els and they ran all the way to 180th Street-Bronx Park. (11/04-7/05) I do not known if Freeman Street service was retained at that time but it is listed as running in 1907. Since 180th Street was already being served by the subway trains the 2nd Avenue trains were turned back at Freeman Street to avoid congestion at 180th Street. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1425352) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 16:26:25 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 15:20:49 2017. I thought that might be the case, Larry. They probably more than the 5 AM rush-hour and 5 PM rush-hour trains, via the Bergen Cutoff, back than, too. That's the number of Freeman St trains they used around Unification, in 1940. |
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| (1425354) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 16:42:01 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 14:44:07 2017. When did they change the 3rd Ave el station from 177th St to Tremont Ave? |
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| (1425357) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 16:59:59 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 16:42:01 2017. When did they change the 3rd Ave el station from 177th St to Tremont Ave? Elkeeper: The 1948 maps lists both 177 St and Tremont Av. The 1961 maps lists only Tremont Avenue. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1425361) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 17:10:17 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 16:26:25 2017. Elkeeper: From a 1938 Service Guide 2nd Avenue - Freeman St. Express Lv Freeman St 628 - 834 AM (M-Sa) Lv City Hall (UL) 446-628 PM (M-F), 12 Noon - 122 PM (Sat) 2nd Avenue - Bronx Park Express Lv Bronx Park 642 - 832 AM (M-Sa) Lv Fordham Road 734 & 744 AM (M-F) Lv City Hall(UL) 452-602 PM (M-F), one to Bronx Park, half to Tremont, half to Fordham. I don't believe that the Bronx Park Express ran during the Saturday noon rush. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 17:11:10 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 16:59:59 2017. Funny, we can never pinpoint an exact year for these street changes, latty. Same thing when Lefferts Ave became Lefferts Blvd, in Queens. |
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| (1425364) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 17:40:50 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 17:11:10 2017. Elkeeper: I won't be surprised if the station was renamed Tremont Avenue about 1960 when the Cross Bronx Expressway was reached Third Avenue. Sometimes though there is one or more names on a platform, another on the maps and a third on the rollsigns. The last time that I was at Willets Point there was still signage for Shea Stadium. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1425379) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 25 18:57:47 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 14:44:07 2017. My guess: Under the original configuration the subway trains ran to the original 180th St/Bronx Park terminal and the only other place to turn trains was at Freeman St. When the line was extended to 241st st, they just probably left it alone. |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 19:25:36 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 17:40:50 2017. I believe it was earlier than that, Larry. Didn't rush-hour Pre-Unification 3rd Ave locals have signage for Tremont Ave? |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:41:07 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 25 18:57:47 2017. At one time some 3rd Avenue trains continued up the WPR Line from Gun Hill Road. |
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| (1425399) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 21:42:06 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 25 19:25:36 2017. I believe it was earlier than that, Larry. Didn't rush-hour Pre-Unification 3rd Ave locals have signage for Tremont Ave? They certainly might have. Certain named streets The Bronx were synonymous with numbered streets . Many people consider Fordham Road to be 190th Street. (Metro-North still does). Tremont Avenue is usually associated with 177th Street. Look how long the Mott Avenue signage was retained at 138th Street. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:43:10 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jan 25 21:42:06 2017. Wasn't that Mott HAVEN? |
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| (1425401) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 25 21:45:09 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:43:10 2017. Yes. 149th Street lower level was Mott Avenue. |
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| (1425419) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 26 07:22:55 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:41:07 2017. Until 1950, I believe... |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 26 20:26:54 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:41:07 2017. On Dec 22nd, 1950, 3rd Ave el trains terminated at Gun Hill Road. On the same date, the South Ferry branch was closed. |
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| (1425542) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 27 07:54:28 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 25 21:41:07 2017. Remember, after 1918 the line had 2 subway services running on it. This probably made the turning situation a bit tighter. |
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| (1425555) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 27 09:50:00 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Thu Jan 26 20:26:54 2017. Another example of how the City whittled away at a service, making it progressively less useful until complete abandonment could be achieved. |
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| (1425599) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 27 15:31:42 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 27 09:50:00 2017. Post-War whittling away of the Manhattan 3rd Ave el:11/05/46- Bergen Ave cut-off closed. 4/22/50- Saturday expresses discontinued. 6/26/50- Thru Expresses cut back to Gun Hill Road. 6/30/50- 129th St station closed 7/01/50- Bronx Park midnight service ended. 12/22/50- South Ferry Branch closed. 11/14/51- All Bronx Park service ended. 3/29/52- Mid-day express service ended. 3/14/52- Weekend & weekday service below 149th St after 7PM ended. 12/31/53- City Hall branch closed. 9/24/54- 149th St center track closed 5/12/55- Service south of 149th St ends. |
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Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 27 15:48:45 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 27 15:31:42 2017. Thanks for the details.A textbook case of "Death by a Thousand Cuts." |
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| (1425614) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 27 16:09:43 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 27 15:48:45 2017. In all fairness, the South Ferry branch could not support the "new" Q cars. It also needed rehab work, so the Board of Transportation decided to tear it down, instead. Until 6/11/40, the 129th St station had been mainly a transfer point between the 2nd and 3rd Ave lines, with light passenger use from the area. The Bergen Ave cut-off was down to 5 morning and 5 afternoon rush-hour trains, when service ended. But, I agree with you on the rest! |
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| (1425620) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Jan 27 16:32:36 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by SLRT on Fri Jan 27 15:48:45 2017. National City Lines'd. |
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| (1425629) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Fri Jan 27 17:22:46 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 27 15:31:42 2017. Elkeeper: That's a great summary, thank you. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (1425646) | |
Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'' |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 27 19:04:09 2017, in response to Re: Riding The Second Avenue ''El'', posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 27 15:31:42 2017. As all this was going on over a 9-year period, was the public aware (through the media or otherwise) that the eventual desired result was total shutdown of the el in Manhattan? |
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