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Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016 Only a proposal at this point.Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 11:05:43 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. Great idea! |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 11:55:20 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 11:05:43 2016. Looks good on paper but doubtful that developers would pay for such a project. Why be on the hook for such a huge expense plus the equally huge cost overruns. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 12:25:54 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 11:55:20 2016. Well, they'd get those great FAR bonuses that could more than make up the cost of the connector. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 17 13:29:56 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. So if built, both stations would have to be ADA compliant.Does the MTA or the builder pay for the elevators ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 13:43:13 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 12:25:54 2016. But isn't it too late to give them the FAR bonus as construction of the building is complete.(FAR of my house is 0.5, with a 13.5 FAR I could build a 54,000 sq.ft. (roughly 50 story) apartment building on my tiny 40' x 100' lot). Would look like hell but I'd give Subchatters a break on the rent. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Oct 17 14:05:51 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. Two Gotham Plaza? With a name like that, I'd be looking for the Bat-Signal on the roof. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 17:26:32 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 13:43:13 2016. Good question, I don't know. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Mon Oct 17 19:09:41 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 17 13:29:56 2016. I think the builder would given they are getting additional square footage in exchange for doing that.That would give ADA compliance to a major hub that continues to explode. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Oct 17 19:09:54 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Oct 17 13:29:56 2016. Queens Plaza already has them, the major add would be the Queensboro Plaza side, since one would assume the connector itself would be inside fare control. You would need to add (in addition to the connector) Street to Mezz, and Mezz to the 2 platform levels The first building of the project has been up for a few years, I worked on it when it was being built. The rest of the site is slated for the 2 additional buildings where the benefit would pay off. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 17 22:35:39 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. Not a bad idea, but it wouldn't be the most convenient transfer, going from underground to elevated. When the parking garage was there, I would have been happy with a walkway to the roof of the garage from Queensboro Plaza, instead of having to go down to go back up. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Mon Oct 17 23:41:59 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. Nice plan. But the blogger says the connecting elevators/stairs would be placed on the "median" directly under the Queensboro Plaza platforms. I don't think there is any median there. There are just roadways. Now what? |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Oct 18 11:09:07 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by pragmatist on Mon Oct 17 19:09:54 2016. Exactly:That's why this needs to be done. That area has come a long way in the last 25 years and the past 10 in particular. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dan on Tue Oct 18 13:53:53 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dave on Mon Oct 17 17:26:32 2016. I think it's too late. Increased FAR of no value to builders now. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by fset on Tue Oct 18 14:08:33 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Tue Oct 18 11:09:07 2016. I used to live in Astoria long ago in the 80's, and a connection would have been convenient. However, it would be far cheaper if the MTA would start offering MetroCard transfers between elevated and subway lines, both at Queensboro/Queens Plaza and in Brooklyn along the Broadway elevated. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 15:39:23 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. There's an argument that this transfer features "is NEEDED because of the temporary closure of the 14th Street Tunnel."I think that there is a very good argument that such a connection between these stations is useful REGARDLESS of the temporary closure of the 14th Street L-train tunnel. It is planned that the L-train tunnel work would take 18 months, a figure talked about on this forum for months. For the sake of argument suppose that the work takes 24 months or 2 years due to unforeseen stuff or cost over-runs, etc. Are the builders really proposing that an incident that might last for 2 years (at most) requires the building of a new transfer conduit? This is different than saying that such a transfer would be helpful for that event, they imply that BECAUSE of that event this transfer should be built. Weird. Mike |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 15:43:41 2016, in response to Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Dan on Mon Oct 17 10:26:11 2016. That would be a nice connection. Will probably have to rename one of the stations, either to Queens Plaza or Queensboro Plaza, as they do with most combined station (although not all). |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 18 17:30:14 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 15:43:41 2016. Interestingly when the BMT subway trains terminated at Qnsbro Plaza, the destination signs read “Queens Plaza” as did the destination signs on the R-27s through 38s. Why both stations were not ultimately changed to match (either one, take your pick) I don’t know. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Tue Oct 18 21:25:24 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Andrew Saucci on Mon Oct 17 22:35:39 2016. Don't you have to do that at Broadway Junction between the L (Upper Level), J/Z (Lower Level) on the EL and The A, C in the Subway? |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Oct 18 21:32:35 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Euclid Avenue A Train on Tue Oct 18 21:25:24 2016. Yes, and while having that transfer is better than not having it, it's nothing like a cross-platform transfer or even something such as West 4 St. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 19 13:35:47 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by randyo on Tue Oct 18 17:30:14 2016. They were not changed so you would know they were different stations and not connected. If they both called Queens Plaza, people would assume there was a free transfer. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 16:39:43 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 19 13:35:47 2016. The question then comes in that after the 11 St cut was built, how would a passenger on a train signed for “Queens Plaza” know whether the train would be terminating at Queensboro Plaza IRT/BMT or Queens Plaza IND? |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 17:37:08 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 16:39:43 2016. The passenger could look at the map in the car . |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Oct 19 17:48:15 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Michael549 on Tue Oct 18 15:39:23 2016. There's an argument that this transfer features "is NEEDED because of the temporary closure of the 14th Street Tunnel."I don't see that argument. How would this help people around the 14th St tunnel? The E, G, and M already connect with the 7 at Court Square, so the only new opportunity would be to go from the R to the 7 in LIC rather than just Jackson Heights. But that doesn't do anything for L riders. I don't even see this proposal as useful in general. I see significant usage only: 1) Overnights, to get from the N to the E (as there is no R) 2) For very specific and awkward service changes / reroutes, such as a closure of the 11th St cut and nothing else, or a closure of the 53rd St tube with something preventing the E from just going via 63rd (where it would, we assume, meet the Q at Lex/63). |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Oct 19 17:56:56 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Oct 18 15:43:41 2016. They would probably go with Queens Plaza, since it seems "Queensboro Plaza" is not technically an actual area. I just did a couple of searches for it and all that comes up is the subway station. I post this in spite of finding this site. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 18:39:10 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 17:37:08 2016. True, but if the passenger sees Queens Plaza IND on the map, the person could be upset if the train winds up at QueensBORO Plaza BMT/IRT. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 18:41:48 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Oct 19 17:56:56 2016. Actually, I believe the name of the actual street is BRIDGE plaza. It is technically Queensborough Bridge Plaza although the street signs omit the name ”Queensborough." |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 19 19:27:14 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Oct 19 17:56:56 2016. I think it would be Queens Plaza too, because resigning an above-ground station is easier than changing the tiles in an underground station, and in this case, the tiles were replaced only a few years ago. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 19:56:26 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 18:39:10 2016. Yes. I recall both stations were commonly referred to as "Queens Plaza' But to avoid passenger confusion, the elevated station was called "Queensborough" sometime around 1970. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 19 19:58:30 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 18:41:48 2016. Some years ago, the street signs were all changed from Bridge Plaza (N and S), to Queens Plaza (N and S), in a bow to popular usage. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 20:18:27 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 19:56:26 2016. As far back as I can remember the El station was always called Queensborough Plaza and I started riding the Flushing Line in the 1950s. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 20:21:36 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by italianstallion on Wed Oct 19 19:58:30 2016. Thanks. I haven’t been at street level there in quite a few years. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 21:54:42 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by randyo on Wed Oct 19 20:18:27 2016. The old porcelain enamel signs were "Queensborough Plaza", but the common name was Queens Plaza. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by K. Trout on Wed Oct 19 22:41:57 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Wed Oct 19 17:48:15 2016. Is there a possibility that certain Gs (perhaps alternate trains during rush hours) could be extended to Queens Plaza and turned north of the station? There's not enough capacity to turn all Gs on that single track, and probably not enough capacity to run everything out to 71 Av, but maybe some could be extended to open up transfer possibilities. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 09:34:24 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Oct 19 19:27:14 2016. Unfortunately I don't think there is much regard for the tiling. I think they change the signs that are changeable and just leave the tiling for the next major station rehabilitation, something like "Pacific St" at Barclay Center. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by fset on Thu Oct 20 09:42:42 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 09:34:24 2016. As soon as I read that Tishman Speyer is involved, i was turned-off. Tishman Speyer was my former landlord and they did Stuy Town a great disservice. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 10:04:28 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by K. Trout on Wed Oct 19 22:41:57 2016. I think it's consensus that it can't. Any G that relays at Queens Plaza must cut off all E, M, and R trains while it maneuvers onto the relay track. That's a heavy price to pay during rush hours when every passenger transfer available that would be at Queens Plaza (if the proposal was actualized) is already available at Court Square except to Broadway services.The fumigation of the G would have to occur between R trains and then it would have to smoothly cross the express track without messing up the E and M, and ideally while an F is merging ahead. That would take some impeccable timing during the rush hour! And Forest Hills. . .well. . .I don't know how much more it can take, even though on paper one would think it should be able to take much more. It's mostly the fumigating that's the problem I hear, but I am still bewildered by why it is so limited in its relaying abilities. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Thu Oct 20 19:11:27 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by northshore on Wed Oct 19 21:54:42 2016. Actually, the old rnamel sings read "Qveensborough Plaza." |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Thu Oct 20 21:21:08 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by K. Trout on Wed Oct 19 22:41:57 2016. It's too late now, but I do wonder how much a lower level G terminal at Queens Plaza would have added to the cost of connecting the 63 St tunnel to Queens Blvd, since work was being done in the area anyway. Certainly some of the closures associated with such construction could have been coordinated with adjacent closures related to the new tunnel construction. For that matter, a lower level G terminal could also have had non-revenue connections to the F tracks that would be at the same level.Okay, so it would only have been another half a billion dollars! The point is, it would be there, and people would stop asking about relaying G trains at Queens Plaza-- wouldn't that be worth it? |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Thu Oct 20 23:51:03 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Italianstallion on Thu Oct 20 19:11:27 2016. I mean, the old enamel signs read "Qveensborough Plaza." |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 14:03:34 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 10:04:28 2016. The true problem here is 71st isnt really a terminal.Its a through station thats used as a terminal because its access to the Jamaica Maintaince facility. The fact that none of the Locals operate to the fully capable 179th st terminal,which can turn around 30 express, AND 30 LOCALS per hour is a mystery to me. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Oct 22 04:07:17 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Edwards! on Fri Oct 21 14:03:34 2016. They would have to extend the M and R both to 179st, and have the F express (as well as the extra rush hour Es).Asking for a *lot* of extra cars for this as well as the re-extended G. I do think however it would be worth it. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 22 19:31:20 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 10:04:28 2016. That is why I would simply extend the (G), (M) and (R) all to 179th and have the (F) go express its full route when the (L) is shut down. I still think having everyone transfer at Court Square is a recipe for disaster and why I would be doing that and also encouraging people as much as possible to take the (G) the other way to Fulton and have an OOS transfer for the 2/3/4/5/B/D/N/Q/R at Atlantic-Barclays. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 22 19:45:51 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 22 19:31:20 2016. Three locals terminating at 179th St, plus the "F" express? I don't tink so, Lucy! |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Oct 22 19:52:19 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 22 19:45:51 2016. Express and local relays don't affect each other at 179th. The local relays would be busy but it's not impossible. The station was made for it.The problem elsewhere pointed out, however, is rolling stock. Extending the G there is a bit lofty of a goal, but extending the M and R there, making the F express all the way, is a bit more manageable with just a tad of an increase in rolling stock. But you'll never hear the end of it about 75th Ave, Briarwood, Sutphin, and 169th no longer having direct express service to Manhattan. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 22 20:37:10 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Oct 22 19:52:19 2016. I'm familiar with the track layout, east of 179th St. Maybe you could turnback 2 locals, but not 3 of them. Assuming you even short turned one at Continental, having 3 locals between Continental and Queens plaza is a potential clusterf**kee! |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 22 21:26:59 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Oct 22 19:45:51 2016. Someone noted elsewhere here recently that 179 St can turn 30 tph express and 30 tph local. Maybe it can't do 3 locals rush hour, but certainly three locals off peak and one express any time would be reasonable if they had the trainsets and the political will to make local the three F stations that are now express stations. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 22 21:30:11 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Wallyhorse on Sat Oct 22 19:31:20 2016. How do you handle the complaints of the people at the local stations that the F would bypass if it were made express to 179 St? Apparently, some of them have complained loudly enough to keep this obvious change from happening for quite some time. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Oct 23 09:53:25 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by Andrew Saucci on Sat Oct 22 21:30:11 2016. Apparently, some of them have complained loudly enough to keep this obvious change from happening for quite some time.But their complaints don't matter right now. With only enough budget and trainsets for two routes east of Forest Hills, the current F train configuration writes itself, regardless of whether it is liked or not. If a third route (M or R) were to go beyond Forest Hills, they would probably argue to still keep the F local in their section and succeed. But if both the M and R went on, and there were four routes involved, they would probably be tested and even then have a shot at victory. 49th St (Broadway) manages to keep its 3 services, so I don't think it impossible for even a station like 75th Ave to end up with 3 services only to keep its express service. Of course, however, I do not see both the M and R going to 179th for years to come. |
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Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Mon Oct 24 10:41:08 2016, in response to Re: Developer Has Chance To Link Two Key Long Island City Subway Stations, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Oct 23 09:53:25 2016. So both sides of the F line (Brooklyn and Queens) have stations that could be bypassed by express service, but at which people in the area would prefer all service to remain local. |
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