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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 31 20:31:10 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by BMRR on Sun Jan 31 20:17:22 2016. THAT might require a permit. :) |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Feb 1 01:58:02 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jan 31 13:41:20 2016. And even if it were cleaned out, or if debris is not an issue at all $$ would have to be spent to make the area patron friendly - lighting, walkways, stairs as necessary**although, maybe not, tours that include Roosevelt Ave. upper level, the staff just leads people on the tour back there and they walk, through the station, and in the adjacent tunnel, accompanied by only TA personnel with vests & museum/TA personnel bringing up the rear of the tour group. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 1 07:11:03 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 31 13:39:13 2016. I'm sorry- I just don't see that... |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 07:14:02 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 1 07:11:03 2016. Google street view has some issues. The camera on the roof of the car takes an image of all sides every X number of feet. To make it all work, they have to stitch together adjacent images and that stitching often glitches, creating some really weird overlaps of those adjacent images. Looks good on the straight vertical, odd results at other angles. It's MAGIC! :) |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 07:17:19 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 1 07:11:03 2016. We've had similar issues with Apple mappings in the past ... :) But we've gotten better. Heh. 
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 1 07:33:12 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 07:17:19 2016. I know what you mean by "stitching". I've seen 2014 morph back to 2011 as I "walked" through a Google Street view. The "stitching" problem is very obvious- and quite literal in the 1924 and all other non-digital aerial images that us buffs all look at as well.That being said, the Street View image that was posted here looks clear and undistorted to me. And I do not perceive the outlines of a subway station and/or tunnel in the cracks in the asphalt. I just see the random poor pavement that can be found almost anywhere in NYC. I do know enough to realize that the cracks are caused either by earth shifting under the pavement, or the pavement having been applied to an uneven surface (I've watched the City pave roads since I was 7- so I see what they do, LOL), whereas potholes are usually caused by expansion (often caused by the freeze/thaw cycle, which is exacerbated by salt) of initially small cracks. And really, all I see in this picture is random cracks. With all due respect to those who see the outline of a man-made structure in those cracks, I think it's a case of seeing what we'd all like to see. I love the subway, I love urban architecture, I love NYC history, and I'd love the 76th Station to exist. But thinking with my head rather than my heart, I think that no more than rudimentary construction took place there, and I don't see any special significance in those cracks in the pavement. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:02:54 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:40:49 2016. Yes, it was called Sunrise Highway. That name applied also to the Belt Parkway from there to the Queens/Nassau line, after which it is still Sunrise Highway.Bob |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 1 09:10:30 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 31 20:31:10 2016. Wouldn't dragging that thing around in the middle of the street also require a permit? |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 09:20:08 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:02:54 2016. That name applied also to the Belt Parkway from there to the Queens/Nassau line, after which it is still Sunrise Highway.Bob: Is "Belt Parkway" an official name or just a generic one used to describe the various roadways that encircle Queens and Brooklyn? Thanks, Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 1 09:21:19 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 1 09:10:30 2016. Yes. You can't do work in a city street without a permit. You would need a street work permit, including an MPT plan (maintaince and protection of traffic), just to close the portion of the street that you'd be dragging the sled around in. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:38:32 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 09:20:08 2016. Larry,It appears so on our official maps. http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/ The name covers all the territory from the junction with the Gowanus Exwy. at 62nd St. in Brooklyn to the junction with the Cross Island and Southern State Pkwys. at the Nassau line. The portion from west of Brookville Blvd. to the city line is labelled Sunrise Hwy. Many older maps refer to it as Circumferential Pkwy which, nowadays at least, is too many syllables for most New Yorkers to bother with. Note, however, that the service roads for some portions are signed Shore Pkwy and Laurelton Pkwy. In my childhood (ca. 1960) the entire set was referred to frequently as the Belt System, probably with the Bell System in mind. Bob |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 10:09:31 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 09:20:08 2016. Incidentally, the outline of Conduit Blvd. and Sunrise Hwy. is visible on our 1924 photos because at one time there actually was the Sunrise Aqueduct running there and into Long Island. It connected to the now disused reservoir in Forest Park.Bob |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 14:05:15 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:38:32 2016. Thanks Bob.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Feb 1 14:05:15 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:38:32 2016. Thanks Bob.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 14:42:12 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Express Rider on Mon Feb 1 01:58:02 2016. How do we find out about such tours? Is it always posted on the NYC Transit Museum site? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 14:42:51 2016, in response to Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:17:46 2016. If Crossbay Blvd was to be an express station, would that mean that Euclid would not have been the (C) terminal? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Feb 1 15:01:41 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 14:42:51 2016. the HH would run from Court Street to Crossbay as the local, with the C and the A as the expresses. This is what I think would have happened |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Feb 1 15:53:57 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 14:42:12 2016. They stopped those tours a long time ago. The closest things to tours of abandoned stations that they still offer are tours of the original City Hall loop station and tours of the former trolley terminal at the Essex Street subway station. |
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Re:Belt Oarkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 17:03:57 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:38:32 2016. Further to this, various portions of what started out as the Belt System had their own names - Shore Parkway from the Gowanus to the Sunrise, and Laurelton Pkwy from there up to the Cross Island. Many maps also showed the Cross Island as part of the Belt System.My 1970s-era Rand McNally NYC street map show the whole thing from the Gowanus to the Whitestone Br. as "(Belt System)" in parentheses, with the various portions' individual names as above without parentheses, except it shows the segment from Conduit to Sunrise Highway as "Southern Parkway", probably a mistake. My 1996 Hagstrom 5-Borough Atlas shows Belt as a secondary name to Shore for all segments up to the Laurelton, but not for the Cross Island. Current usage is to use Belt Parkway (not System) for the segment from the Gowanus to the Southern State, and Cross Island for the rest. Overhead and local directional signs follow this usage. |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 1 17:07:43 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Feb 1 15:53:57 2016. I went on a couple of those tours, the segment of the Second Avenue Subway underneath Confucius Plaza and the upper level of the Roosevelt Avenue Station. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 1 18:11:37 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Feb 1 15:01:41 2016. Back then, it was the E to eastern Queens, and the CC ended at WTC. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Feb 1 18:22:04 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 1 18:11:37 2016. Actually, at the time the extension was supposed to be opened, the C/Concourse 8 Av Exp ran to Bkln and terminated at Hoyt. When Euclid opened the C was eliminated completely and then was replaced in Bkln by the E. It’s possible that the C wold have been the alternate exp service in Bkln if the line had opened as planned. |
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Re:Belt Oarkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 19:11:53 2016, in response to Re:Belt Oarkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 17:03:57 2016. According to nycroads.com, section between Cross Bay Blvd and Lauralton Parkway, was always named "Southern Parkway" for long time.Source: Nycroads.com - Belt Parkway "NAMES AND DESIGNATIONS: The sections of the Belt Parkway are comprised as follows: |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 19:30:38 2016, in response to Re:Belt Oarkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 19:11:53 2016. Interesting - never heard anyone call it Southern Parkway - would be confused with the Southern State Parkway. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 1 20:00:38 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 1 09:21:19 2016. Yeah, that would sound about right. Which is why I think it should be a group effort. :-) |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 20:16:40 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 1 09:10:30 2016. Yep ... and some cops. OR ... you could do it ghostbusters style, just do it at night. GPR won't care. You'd still have cops, but a good excuse. :)
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 20:18:29 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 19:30:38 2016. Excuse my typos in the previous post haha.Check out these maps: http://www.nycroads.com/history/1960_metro-1/ http://www.nycroads.com/history/1941_metro-2/ |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 20:19:17 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 20:16:40 2016. If we can rent an old and busted Plymouth Fury, we could have tunnelrat and Sgt. Jeff park in front. :) |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 20:49:33 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by N6 Limited on Mon Feb 1 20:18:29 2016. Based on #2, Southern Parkway started with what is now Conduit, then Shore Parkway, then Laurelton, connecting to Southern State. So there was a logic to it.Great maps. Love the unbuilt interstates. |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Mon Feb 1 21:24:31 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Q4 on Mon Feb 1 17:07:43 2016. I was on tours to both these locations too, as well as City Hall Station during the mid 90's. They were hands-on history field trips. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by K. Trout on Tue Feb 2 02:11:58 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by zac on Sun Jan 31 11:20:25 2016. Yeah, it's very confusing.If the road was being built/paved at that time, perhaps some extra excavation was necessary to shore it up owing to the high water table. Or maybe the IND convinced the DOT to build the subway tunnel underneath the new segment of Pitkin - the answer implies the IND budget was limited to Grant, but it's mentioned elsewhere in this thread that other city agencies occasionally paid for subway infrastructure as well. The fact that there's no mention of contracts awarded or budget allocated beyond Euclid or Grant is indeed odd though. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Feb 2 06:49:58 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 31 17:33:29 2016. Does that red box have to be in contact with the ground? Or is it the hand-held unit that does the work? If the latter, the red box (power? signal processing?) could be in the trunk of a car and so remain inconspicuous. I'm guessing that wouldn't work, but I don't know. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 2 07:06:29 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Dyre Dan on Tue Feb 2 06:49:58 2016. The red box is the radar unit and control electronics itself. In order to provide valid measurements and height calibration, it needs to actually be ON the ground to work properly. Yeah, you could probably sneak it, but the metal of a car's trunk could screw up what you're measuring. The way it works is the electronics sends a microwave signal straight down, and then sees what reflects off it in a "time domain" which indicates depth and interpretation of the amplitude (color?) of the reflection is then analyzed to determine what it was down there that reflected back.Metal gives the best reflections, but is it iron? Steel? That's what you pay the experts to give you in the final report. But since we're looking for rails, steel beams and other iron about 35 or more feet down, any metal found at a depth of 20 feet or less has to be water, gas, etc. Find echoes further down, and we might have rails and rebar around concrete. That's how it works. GPR is about the only thing that's going to settle this other than a really large backhoe and lots of explaining. :) |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by zac on Tue Feb 2 07:44:40 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Mon Feb 1 18:22:04 2016. With 4 potential branches at the end of the line, any number of combinations could have been tried. Even with the current 3, they have tweaked it over the years. |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by GIS Man on Tue Feb 2 08:34:35 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 19:30:38 2016. Yes, it was also called the Southern Pkwy.Another tidbit: I mentioned that there had been an aqueduct where Conduit Blvd (thus the name) and the Southern Pkwy and Sunrise Highway are now. Force Tube Av. also owes its name to the presence of the aqueduct. House numbers on Conduit Blvd. (original name of Brooklyn portion) are a continuation of those of Force Tube Av. Bob |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by BMRR on Tue Feb 2 10:05:21 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 2 07:06:29 2016. What about hanging the unit from the bottom of a car or van? If itneeds to be on the ground it could be lowered using some sort of rigging in the van. |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Feb 2 10:09:01 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Tue Feb 2 08:34:35 2016. aqueduct is still there,unused. |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Tue Feb 2 11:58:43 2016, in response to Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 31 15:42:36 2016. I loved his nuclear meltdown about having the power to order the Chrystie connection be permanently severed if MTA didn't abandon the M/V combination. His having a seat on an empty train at 2nd Avenue was the only priority. :P |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Feb 2 11:58:51 2016, in response to Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by terRAPIN station on Mon Feb 1 15:53:57 2016. I went on one tour, in 1996. It was called "Curios of the IRT" and we visited the inner loop station at South Ferry, the southbound closed side platform at Brooklyn Bridge and the abandoned south end of the downtown open platform. We went a few other places, don't remember where. We didn't tour City Hall - Giuliani was in office then and he was too concerned about security - nobody was allowed there except NYCTA personnel. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Feb 2 13:14:26 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 1 20:00:38 2016. I'd certainly help out any way I could. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Tue Feb 2 13:14:48 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 1 20:16:40 2016. Why would you also need cops? |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Tue Feb 2 13:49:40 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by italianstallion on Mon Feb 1 20:49:33 2016. The Bushwick Expressway would have been useful. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 2 14:12:56 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 09:38:32 2016. As I understand it, and looking at a 1967 Mobil map I got from my dad, all of the segments (Cross Island, Laurelton, Shore- and originally, the pre-interstate Gowanus) had their own names, and the whole thing was called the "Belt System", forming a "belt" around NYC.I guess everybody just called the whole shebang the "Belt Parkway" from Day 1, so the powers that be (or were) gave up and made it semi-official. BUT- some remnants of the old official nomenclature lasted much longer. On the Gowanus (west/SI Bound), the signs for the Belt Parkway exit clearly had originally read "Shore"- the outline of the word "Shore" was clearly visible. These were the green, post-1964 signs- so the name "Shore" was posted at least then. By the time I noticed the sign (1979 or so) it had been changed to "Belt"- but "Shore" could easily be read. These 2 signs weren't changed out 'till 1999-2001 or so. But even more importantly, in 2011, I was stuck in some serious eastbound traffic on the Belt, and I took the chance to look at the tiny green marker signs affixed to the lampposts. Turns out the routes have official numbers, I guess for DOT purposes. They're all in the 900 series. While I forget the exact ones used, they do change at the point the Shore Parkway became the Laurelton!! So- in some fashion, the separate designations still exists. BTW- the Korean War Veterans' Pkwy on Staten Island also has a 90X number...can't recall it. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 2 14:17:24 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Mon Feb 1 10:09:31 2016. Yes- I noticed that just today. I also noticed just today that the LIRR Rockaway Beach Branch (now IND) also appeared to have already (in 1924) been put on a trestle over the Belt/Shore Parkway, which did not itself exist- but was on grade before and after.Did they know that far back that a highway was going in there, and decide to elevate the railroad in anticipation? Or am I seeing things? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 2 14:20:50 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by zac on Sun Jan 31 11:20:25 2016. I'll go for the utility theory. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 2 16:23:45 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Feb 1 09:21:19 2016. Why don't we find out from Mr Diamond, who found the LIRR tunnel extension, west of Flatbush Ave? Didn't he start at a manhole at Court/Atlantic? |
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Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 2 17:34:50 2016, in response to Re:Belt Parkway Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by GIS Man on Tue Feb 2 08:34:35 2016. This explains the name of Aqueduct Race Track. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Feb 2 17:37:07 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 2 14:12:56 2016. All named parkways are official NY State highways and have "900" series numbers for internal purposes. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 2 17:52:59 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by BMRR on Tue Feb 2 10:05:21 2016. Heh. Why not? I'm sure cops would be curious though about a vehicle moving back and forth, hitting the curb on both sides of the street over and over again, and not proceeding. :) |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 2 18:34:48 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Elkeeper on Tue Feb 2 16:23:45 2016. What do I need to find out? |
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