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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Jan 29 23:02:05 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 20:00:20 2016. Most NYC streets look like that! |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:25:02 2016, in response to A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:42:02 2016. "Sunrise Highway" at the end is probably referring to Conduit Ave - aka where we know the wall is. Makes sense that the final piece (Euclid Av, Pitkin Yard, and leads) would be built together. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:53:41 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 29 11:11:21 2016. That fourth clipping is very interesting. "Present terminus at Pitkin avenue and Eighty-second street"? That's a hell of a statement for March of 1939, around the same time that work was known to be progressing on other parts of the extension as well. And why ask if it will be an open cut? Could it be a reference to ongoing cut-and-cover construction? |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Jan 30 04:31:04 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 29 19:18:17 2016. Is that why south of 36th st past the West End line turnout there seems to be a partial turnout ramp that decend literally under the West End turnout ramp?Noticed it walking back to 36th st station after laying up a Romeo. Thought it was interesting. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Jan 30 04:53:16 2016, in response to Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:17:46 2016. Very interesting Union Tpke! Probably not adding any new info but I have layed up Charley's down there a time or two (the 4 tracks alleged to lead to 76 st NOT the yd leads/relay tcks) it is obvious that those 4 lay up tracks were meant to go further for a couple reasons.1. The layup tracks are on a pretty steep decending grade. Usually planned layup tracks are level. 2. The tracks end in a wall but if my memory serves the wall at the end of those tracks don't exactly look like most other subway walls it has horizontal lines going across them it leads me to believe they are temporary (thats purely a guestimation on my part but really wall does look different) As for what or how much is allegedly past that wall I have no idea. 3. 76 st station is on the board in the Euclid dispatcher office I don't remember if it's on the board at Pitken he also but I think it is. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by zac on Sat Jan 30 07:30:13 2016, in response to Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:17:46 2016. I can't say that I saw anything in the articles that suggests 76th was ever built or started. Just that it was planned, and that construction was completed to Euclid. I read through the "construction halted" articles hoping to find some mention of construction beyond Euclid but didn't see anything.And the comments at the end of the long post about the utilities possibly building the tunnels as they were doing other work is just impossible. Building a subway tunnel costs a lot of money above and beyond the needs of the utility and is a major project. Where would that money have come from? My skepticism aside, I don't dismiss the possibility that it exists. I passed through on my bike last summer to check it out and it still seems strange that Pitkin is wide enough for a 4 track subway underneath in that area. It wouldn't have been widened before the construction, but only as the result of the construction. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 10:20:56 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 29 13:02:57 2016. I read it about 15 years ago on microfilm in the queensboro public library. a brooklyn eagle story. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 10:34:52 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 29 19:18:17 2016. not a rumor randy,I read the article.my mistake on 59st.its 36st.yes,ive been in the ramps and never used control area. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by sloth on Sat Jan 30 12:36:08 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:53:41 2016. It seems like William Jerome Daly had all the answers. Seance, anyone? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 12:56:18 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by MainR3664 on Fri Jan 29 07:25:21 2016. in the signal dept.room which is connected to the euclid tower is a 1947 signal schmatic showing that the tunnel continues past the curtain wall at pitkin & elderts ave.a photo of this has been posted here. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 13:11:52 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Jan 30 04:53:16 2016. IT IS ON THE BOARD AT PITKIN.A BLACK STRIP OF PLASTIC COVERS IT UP.SEEN IT MANY TIMES. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 30 13:59:25 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 10:20:56 2016. Why do you suppose the TA keeps it a great secret ?Why not say, yeh it's there, no public tours are available, and we have no plans to ever use it ? |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 15:07:34 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 30 13:59:25 2016. MY THOUGHTS ARE THAT THEY SIMPLY FORGOT IT AWAY. THE BLUEPRINTS OF WHAT WAS BUILT TO 79ST.WOUND UP IN SOMEBODY`S BASEMENT. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Sat Jan 30 18:16:14 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 13:11:52 2016. Oh ok was sure haven't been there in about a yr |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Sat Jan 30 18:49:22 2016, in response to A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:42:02 2016. Any connection to 76th Street?No. Crystal Street is west of the Euclid Avenue station, and the wall in question would have been removed sometime prior to Euclid opening in 1948. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 18:53:13 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:25:02 2016. fyi:all IND construction was stopped in may of 1942 due to WW2. |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Jan 30 20:13:22 2016, in response to Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Elkeeper on Fri Jan 29 16:41:07 2016. Time to call the Mythbusters before they sign off TV for good.Bill Newkirk |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jan 30 20:26:52 2016, in response to Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Bill Newkirk on Sat Jan 30 20:13:22 2016. I think they've already filmed all of the remaining episodes. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:38:33 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 13:11:52 2016. I suspected that it would be on Pitkin’s board as well as Euclid’s, but unfortunately when I was a trainmaster down there in 1983/84, I never thought to check it out. |
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Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:40:49 2016, in response to Re: A tile wall at Crystal Street Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:25:02 2016. It seems from some old maps I've seen of the area that Conduit Blvd was either at one time called Sunrise Hwy or it was intended to name it that. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:48:29 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Jan 30 04:31:04 2016. That is the turnout that was originally intended to be used. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:50:38 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 10:34:52 2016. I can’t understand why the engineer would off himself over it, since moving the station was a joint BRT/PSC decision and not a result of any error. What is the source of the article? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 21:01:07 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:53:41 2016. Well, one of the things I didn't see mentioned in any of the articles is the through routing of Pitkin Av with Old South Rd east of Ruby St unless I missed it while reading the articles. As I had mentioned before in other threads, Pitkin Av ended at Ruby St which I believe was the boundary between Bkln and Queens. At some point probably as a part of the extension of the IND subway in that area. What appeared to be private property on some maps I’ve seen from the 1920s was cut through to make a continuous thoroughfare between Ruby St and points farther east and at that same time Old South Rd was renamed Pitkin Ave although some maps show a short portion of the Avenue still named “Old South Rd.” Depending on when the through routing of the street actually took place, it could be that it was done concurrently with the subway construction so that the open cut referred to would have been the construction of the subway infrastructure and the covering of it by a brand new street which had never existed in that area before. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 21:09:16 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by zac on Sat Jan 30 07:30:13 2016. Other agencies or even private companies building subway infrastructures in anticipation of future subway extensions is not necessarily uncommon. It could very well have been built by Con Edison using city funds allocated for that purpose but rather than the city having to come by a few years later and relocate the electrical work, it would have been more expedient to just give Con Ed the plans along with the funding and have the utility build the subway at the same time as the electrical work and then cover it over to await then rest of the subway to come along and connect to it. As I mentioned in other threads, similar construction was done in Wash Hts in Manhattan when PS 173 was being built. Rather than have the school and adjacent school yard underpinned due to subway construction, the Board of Ed or whatever agency was responsible for school construction at the time built the infrastructure for 174 St Yd several years before the rest of the subway and the yard leads were merely connected to an already completed infrastructure. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 30 21:41:48 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 20:00:20 2016. How could the street last 70 plus years on what is essentially a bridge without maintenance. Rain, snow, salt, the seasons. How could it hold up a street without inspections and remediation? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jan 30 21:48:59 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 21:09:16 2016. Just for giggles, when I was younger, I'd often see manhole covers marked "Empire City Subway" and wondered where the entrances to the token booths were. Year later, working for the NYPSC, I discovered that Empire City had their own tunnels which were leased out to utilities for cables, water, gas and other purposes. Utilities have tunnels too, no trains. :) |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 22:01:49 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 20:50:38 2016. Brooklyn daily eagle. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by K. Trout on Sat Jan 30 22:08:41 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 30 21:01:07 2016. That would square nicely with tax map research I did a while back. I wasn't able to find any easements on the Queens side of Pitkin Av (there were plenty on the Brooklyn side, usually the subway abutting a few feet into private property, especially for stations).But I hadn't considered that Pitkin Av might have been built as the subway roof. If the city already owned the land for the subway, there's no need to get an easement. The new lots along Pitkin would have been drawn appropriately outside the subway borders. 1924 Aerial map from NYPL. Looks like Old South Rd was a dirt road - and didn't directly connect to Pitkin. The connection and improvement of Pitkin Av easily could have been done as part of the IND construction. |
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Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 31 08:02:07 2016, in response to Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Thu Jan 28 20:17:46 2016. The MTA should put an end to all of this nonsense once and for all. The door should be put back into the concrete wall and the Transit Museum should give tours of 76th Street. It would be an extremely popular tour and seemingly would not be very difficult to accomplish. |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Jan 31 08:56:50 2016, in response to Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 31 08:02:07 2016. I totally agree! |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Jan 31 08:57:37 2016, in response to Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 29 16:29:23 2016. thanks! |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by zac on Sun Jan 31 11:20:25 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Fri Jan 29 23:53:41 2016. I read that at least three times, but it is still ambiguous. The question sounds as if the construction already started out to 82nd St. but the answer states that it was only budgeted out to Grant in 1939, the time of the article. Maybe then the suspicions that the work was started without full authorization are true, or maybe the utility was doing work out there and this was mistaken to be subway work, or maybe they were building the subway as suggested (that I don't believe myself). |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 31 12:57:06 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 12:56:18 2016. Yes, I know that. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 31 13:21:30 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by tunnelrat on Sat Jan 30 22:01:49 2016. The problem with newspaper articles is that many reporters are notorious for reporting inaccurate information. Many years ago, the daily news published an article that was supposed to be about the NYW&B. The article was so full of misinformation it was almost laughable. The article referred to the RR as the “Boston and Westchester” and stated that it was intended to run between E180 St and Dyre Av which is the present length of the NYCTA Dyre Av Line. Not only did the article get the name of the RR wrong but it made no mention whatsoever of the rest of the route originating at Harlem river or the remainder of the 2 branches that extended into Westchester County. The point is, since most reporters don’t have the exhaustively encyclopedic knowledge necessary to write intelligent articles the accuracy of many of them is highly suspect. |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by BMRR on Sun Jan 31 13:24:42 2016, in response to Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 31 08:02:07 2016. 2nd that idea - Transit Museum could be the only way access could happen. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 31 13:25:45 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by K. Trout on Sat Jan 30 22:08:41 2016. Whether Old South Rd was a dirt road or not, the aerial map I saw which may well have been the same one you saw definitely shows that Old South Rd did not connect to Pitkin. The problem I encountered was that the next aerial photo I was able to find was from 1950 when Pitkin already ran through so I wasn’t able to find exactly when Pitkin was connected to Old South Rd. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 31 13:28:11 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Jan 30 21:41:48 2016. According to the info on this thread, there are electrical lines immediately beneath the surface which would be above the subway infrastructure so the street was in all likelihood being maintained by Con Ed. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jan 31 13:32:06 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 29 08:27:25 2016. I Agree! Just wonder if they could have built a waterproof tunnel to connect with the LIRR right-of-way, without any stations like 76th St, 84th St, and Cross Bay Blvd? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 31 13:36:13 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 20:00:20 2016. Looks like ordinary cracks in the pavement to me... |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 31 13:39:13 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by MainR3664 on Sun Jan 31 13:36:13 2016. Is is the way they are angled, not random, like surrounding a square structure. |
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Re: Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Jan 31 13:41:20 2016, in response to Station Tour( Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary), posted by Mitch45 on Sun Jan 31 08:02:07 2016. I suspect that the 76th St area is filled with watery muck. Then what? Who would pay to clean it out, if necessary? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Sun Jan 31 14:34:20 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by Joe V on Sun Jan 31 13:39:13 2016. I have to ask this, why not try and locate the contractors or ask original residents if they are still residinging there if they even know if there was subway tunnel built there, along pitkn avenue area of Ozone Park? Plus I know it is a tunnel with station, there are no pictures of vehicles or construction equipment to document what was going on? I am sure there has to be something. Or listen just ask the MTA to produce the answer I am sure they know, what is there. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Sun Jan 31 14:45:37 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Sun Jan 31 14:34:20 2016. Better yet ask the local representatives,Joseph P. Adabbo or Eric Ulrich of the area to try and find out. |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by chud1 on Sun Jan 31 15:23:30 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by randyo on Sun Jan 31 13:21:30 2016. IAWTP since i worked for 30 years in nyc at a major news agency.chud1. :)..... |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 31 15:42:36 2016, in response to Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 29 16:29:23 2016. And 33rd St is STILL mad |
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Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 31 16:30:07 2016, in response to Re: Union Tpke, That Is Great News, Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jan 31 15:42:36 2016. lol |
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Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jan 31 16:33:46 2016, in response to Re: (Calling Tunnelrat and Randyo) Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by chud1 on Sun Jan 31 15:23:30 2016. Oh yeah, which one, and doing what? |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Jan 31 16:46:27 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Sun Jan 31 14:34:20 2016. There probably aren’t any residents still living there who were there at the time of construction and based on photos of the area there probably weren’t any residents living in the immediate area at all. |
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 31 17:33:29 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by ROCKAWAYNY2016 on Sun Jan 31 14:34:20 2016. Once again, GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) will do the trick. We've now established that whatever we're looking for is about 35 to 40 feet below if there's anything. GPR would be able to spot any iron or rebar down there. And they're fairly cheap to rent. Talent to read the data not included.
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Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary |
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Posted by BMRR on Sun Jan 31 20:17:22 2016, in response to Re: Possible new 76th Street Evidence and summary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Jan 31 17:33:29 2016. ........and then man the shovels!! |
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