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| Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? (1364263) | |
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| (1365477) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 5 15:16:56 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 14:10:14 2015. given the low rate of proper recycling, I want the blister packs outlawed. And before anyone whines about shoplifting, we all know how CDs were "overboxed" for display but the final package we took home was small, and with many bands all paper.So, (rail content) what little garbage there should be can be hauled away, but the real goal is simply less throwaway. I almost never fill my garbage can unless doing house repair/remodeling. |
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| (1365478) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 5 15:34:42 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 19:00:38 2015. If after all that there was still a need, I would be open to it, yes. I would also be open to lowering the entrance fee for certain personnel, such as those you mention, if a way to figure out who is who can be developed. |
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| (1365481) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 5 15:45:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Fri Sep 4 21:29:34 2015. I think the problem is we can't exactly imagine what "better mass transit" is. I mean imagine if NYC's mass transit was more like AirTrain JFK (VERY bag friendly) than like the Lexington Ave line at rush hour. I think that if mass transit was improved to its highest potential then yeah even with baggage you could always make the argument for it above a cab.If we put all our eggs in mass transit, mass transit would be much different. Imagine if AirTrain had select key stops in all the CBDs -- Lower Manhattan, Midtown, Downtown Brooklyn. . .and more. The question is actually sort of moot, which is why communication in this thread here is broken down. We're all debating a city that doesn't exist yet, where mass transit has gotten better funding. Best we can do is see if in other places of the world, where mass transit may be better funded relative to roadways for private vehicles, and see if those cities are more desirable. |
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| (1365485) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 5 16:10:40 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 14:08:12 2015. I think that stairs are the biggest deterrent. Taking your luggage through an airport and taking it to a non-ADA subway station are different things.If you take AirTrain of course it's like you're still in the airport. Really AirTrain is like the airport floor moving under your feet. Wide doors, no required staircases. Until you get on the subway - then it comes down to whether or not your destination (and any transfer) station(s) are ADA equipped. |
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| (1365511) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:30:36 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Sep 5 15:16:56 2015. IAWTP. But even a small amount of garbage from 9 million people plus commuters and visitors is a LOT of trash that has to go somewhere. |
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| (1365512) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:35:51 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 5 15:45:28 2015. The physical configuration of the subway is fine for carrying bags. I'm talking about people who live in NYC but don't have good subway access. So better mass transit is subway extensions, TriboroRX, better LIRR and MN service, transit malls for busses, light rail, etc, etc.There is no reason for AirTrain to go to Manhattan. That's what the subway is for. It's just a bridge to bridge the subway and LIRR to the airport terminal in a way that's easier to use and faster than bus shuttles. Soon LIRR will go to GCT, making things even easier for people going to the airport if they want to pay the big bucks for LIRR over the subway. The existing system is absolutely already the answer for the places it goes, i.e. anywhere in Manhattan, and much of the outer boroughs. And most of those areas are bus-connected. |
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| (1365513) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:42:43 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Sep 5 16:10:40 2015. Non-ADA stations are an impediment for people with disabilities. That's true.They are not an impediment to people with luggage whatsoever. That's why luggage has the stair-climber strips on the back, and handles on the top. My luggage has probably been dragged up and down many dozens of stories worth of stairs, and I don't even travel that much. Even at most of the stations with ADA accessibility, people who don't need it are going up and down stairs or escalators anyway, so that's basically irrelevant. You are just making lame excuses for lazy people who are too lazy to pull their bags up or down a few stories of stairs. |
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| (1365514) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Sep 5 22:34:20 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 14:14:03 2015. Triboro RX, as proposed, wouldn't be much different than a longer G or D train. Unlike a commuter rail line, we're not expecting people to generally start at one end and end up generally at the other. |
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| (1365517) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 00:18:15 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by 3-9 on Sat Sep 5 22:34:20 2015. True. It makes no sense, but since it would have to be FRA heavy rail, it should have to have bathrooms. Under the current regulations, it wouldn't have to, and it could be configured just like a subway car inside, even though it would be an FRA-compliant train on the outside.TriboroRX is a really weird beast because it is sticking a rapid transit operation on a freight railroad. |
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| (1365518) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 6 00:49:25 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 00:18:15 2015. but since it would have to be FRA heavy rail, it should have to have bathroomsThe mental rigidity is strong with this foamer. |
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| (1365520) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 6 01:02:33 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 6 00:49:25 2015. on most days, the paying passengers have little or no interest in whether the transit is FRA or not. Will it get me where I am going fast? how long must I wait for it to come? How high is the fare.After these questions everything else is way less important. |
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| (1365521) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Dj Hammers on Sun Sep 6 01:15:12 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:42:43 2015. That's a very closed minded statement. What about older people who do not have the upper body strength? What about people who have genetic disorders that leave their muscles disfunctional and unable to lift heavy things?Use some theory of mind and realize that not everything feels the way you do. |
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| (1365522) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 6 01:22:32 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:42:43 2015. lazy assumes they can, merely choose not to. At 71 I am not as spry as I was at 31,41,51,61. The whole point of the ADA regs is to make things easier for all. I particularly remember in Sacremento seeing both elders w/ laundry carts full of shopping, and young mothers w/ babies in strollers using the ADA ramps. |
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| (1365526) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:01:47 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:48:01 2015. Okay, so Lefferts to Inwood on the A (what's that, about an 1.5 hours?) deserves no bathrooms but Jamaica to FBA (30 mins) is required, simply because one is FRA and the other isn't? You're ridiculous |
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| (1365527) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:05:30 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Sep 6 00:49:25 2015. +1 |
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| (1365528) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:06:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:43:48 2015. Heh, so you'll just ignore the list of locations that I previously provided. |
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| (1365529) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:07:48 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:30:21 2015. No, I'm concerned with the grades along 287 Cross Westchester Expressway from Tappan Zee to White Plains. |
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| (1365530) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:09:29 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:32:56 2015. And what's the problem of the trains being in a tunnel? And again, it would be built in conjunction with the work needed to be done to the ROW for freight and TriboroRX. I really don't get why you're struggling with this. |
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| (1365531) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:11:31 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:51:49 2015. Go to the airport sometime. You'll see that people are traveling with a lot more than just 1 checked bag and 1 carry on |
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| (1365532) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:13:07 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:35:51 2015. "The physical configuration of the subway is fine for carrying bags."Bye Felicia |
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| (1365534) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:18:02 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 14:08:12 2015. This just shows how out of touch with reality you are. Rather than take one bus from CT right to your terminal, you're going to take Metro North, then take the 4/5/6 or walk to the E, then take the airtrain. Guaranteed CT Limo beats your ridiculous route to the airport 9 times out of 10 and it's more convenient. Oh wait, according to you, that's not smart, that's just lazy. |
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| (1365536) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:19:15 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:42:43 2015. "They are not an impediment to people with luggage whatsoever."I'm not sure if you're arrogant, ignorant, or both, but either way, I'm done with you and I think most people after seeing that statement will be done with you too. Good night Malaysia 370 |
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| (1365539) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by WillD on Sun Sep 6 04:28:59 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:42:01 2015. You're insisting on artificial differences between modes that are not reflected in the actual service provided. |
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| (1365552) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 09:53:18 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:06:59 2015. guys like him are the new luddites, this, based on what i'm reading here. the notion of "hey, why change what we have now for something new?" is holding us back. why NOT re-use existing infrastructure, such as linden boulevard or thel.i.c to Jamaica lirr line? the "maintain the sanctity of the neighborhood" as the extant geist ain't good. remember, not every damn neighborhood can be park slope or astoria or, even, Harlem. |
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| (1365554) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 6 09:54:56 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:35:51 2015. Now you're getting me really confused. If the existing system is already the answer, is there any need to change funding?If we expand mass transit and get the funding, why shouldn't the AirTrain provide services beyond its current reach? Make the airport much more easily accessible and leave the subway to take care of local citizens. That way people wanting the airport from a CBD get excellent service, and people who just want to go home to Brooklyn and Queens get what they need without the airport baggage. |
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| (1365556) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 6 10:02:41 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:42:43 2015. Yes there are definitely people who can handle the stairs but are too lazy. But this is in no way a description of people across the board. Everyone has different health capabilities, and there are plenty of people who do have the capability of traveling with their luggage in an airport environment (which would include airport extensions like AirTrain, and perhaps the subway where it is ADA accessible) but would not be able to handle the typical non-ADA-compliant subway station or high-floor bus.Would increased funding to mass transit enable ADA-compliant and low-floor vehicle guarantees? Then maybe we have something. I still question whether greeting someone off a 20+ hour flight with an hour long subway ride after an AirTrain to a CBD is appropriate. I would think that in order to keep this person from electing a cab, at least AirTrain direct to a CBD would be a huge difference. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:04:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 21:35:51 2015. no argument there. but for city as a whole, it ain't enough. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:04:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:07:48 2015. You think they're more than 4%?! 1000HP EMUs shouldn't have an issue with 4% grades. Freights wouldn't be able to use that route, but there is no reason they would anyway. They'd use the Cross-Harbor Tunnel or the Oak Point Link. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:05:22 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:09:29 2015. It's already a tangled, twisted enough ROW with all sorts of other infrastructure around it. And you want to make it that much worse so that people can drive their cars around? That's a terrible idea. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:05:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:06:59 2015. None of them are feasible. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:06:37 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:01:47 2015. You've got to draw the line somewhere. If you get rid of the line to Rockaway Beach and make it LIRR, then the longest somewhere to Manhattan or visa versa run is around an hour, most are around 35-40 minutes at the extreme. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:15:01 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:18:02 2015. That's not even a bus, it's a stupid little van. It makes no sense to take some crappy little van when I can take a 10,000HP set of M-8's. Also, what if we get stuck in traffic and we're late? They can't control the traffic, MN controls their railroad. As does the NYCTA.I've done the SLE-MN-4/6-E-AirTrain combo, and it works. I've also done Northeast Regional to Blue to Logan Shuttle Bus combo. It also works. You could take Silver too, but I like Blue more since you get a nice walk through the pahk as they say up there. It also costs $68, versus like $35 with the train combo. And, as anyone on this site should understand, riding a bunch of trains to go somewhere is a good day! |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:20:17 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 6 09:54:56 2015. There are a lot of places in NYC that need expanded subway service, but for the airport itself, it's already connected to LIRR and the subway in two places (my proposal to turn the RBB back into LIRR would flip that to one subway and two LIRR), so there's no reason to expand AirTrain more, if it were even physically possible to get that thing into Manhattan.LaGuardia should probably be shut down, but if it were to stay as an airport, it should have an AirTrain too that actually connects to somewhere useful, not over by Shitti Field, or the N/Q line could be extended to LaGuardia, so it would be directly connected. Having two different systems, if it were even physically possible is just going to cost more and offer fewer benefits for everyone. Having the subway be the common denominator is the best way, and if more capacity is needed post-CBTC, then continuous articulated cars can be procured. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:24:50 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 6 10:02:41 2015. well, they can take the lirr. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:25:35 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 02:11:31 2015. There are a few people who bring too much sh*t with them. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:26:02 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 6 01:02:33 2015. There is usually a clear difference between the national rail system and a closed transit system. |
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| (1365568) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:27:34 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sun Sep 6 01:22:32 2015. I was clearly specifically referring to people who do not need ADA accommodations. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:29:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:04:08 2015. The subway? The subway definitely needs expansion. No reason to expand AirTrain. |
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| (1365570) | |
Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:31:54 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sun Sep 6 10:02:41 2015. If they can navigate through an airport, then they should be fine on a subway or bus. And they have no choice at most airports anyway, you have to take a bus to the rental cars, or some sort of train into the city. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:44:58 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:29:44 2015. why? it definitely is feasible to expand any highway, even the c.b.e. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:50:57 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:48:01 2015. wow. agree with you on that one. rockaway line back to lirr, yeah. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Sep 6 10:54:47 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:15:01 2015. There's no way you could have taken Amtrak to the Blue line to the shuttle bus to Logan, since the Blue line doesn't connect to any Amtrak station.subfan |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Sep 6 13:46:34 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:26:02 2015. In Denver, the EMU future routes and the Light Rail routes are not very distinguishable on the maps. The fact that the EMU's will pull into different tracks in Denver Union Station than Amtrak does not make it part of the national rail system to the customer. The LRV tracks are very close by. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Sep 6 17:39:26 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by subfan on Sun Sep 6 10:54:47 2015. The Blue Line doesn't even connect directly to the Red Line. You have to transfer from Red to Orange or Green before you can get on Blue. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Sep 6 18:06:42 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by #5 - Dyre Ave on Sun Sep 6 17:39:26 2015. Correct. At this point, the Orange is the only option, since Government Center is closed for reconstruction through spring 2016.subfan |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 20:21:30 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:15:01 2015. For one, I've only seen CT Limo coach buses on the airport runs, not vans, but even if it's a van I'd be far more inclined to take that than your ass backward 3 transfer route. Yes, traffic happens, but delays happen on the rails too. Brokwne rail, failed signal, congestion, sick passengers. Any method is capable of running into problems. Again, if CT Limo is faster and more convenient (1 bus vs 4 trains), then why on earth wouldn't I take it? |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 20:24:08 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:06:37 2015. Okay, so an hour subway ride shouldn't have a bathroom but the 40 min ride from Port Washington to NYC must? Give it up, your thinking is flawed |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 20:31:28 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ntrainride on Sun Sep 6 10:50:57 2015. Why? LIRR fares are too high for most in that community, and even if you try to run it like a subway you're stealing at least 4 tph capacity from the rest of the RR that needs to serve areas that currently don't have any alternatives. |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 20:40:56 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sat Sep 5 13:29:44 2015. Wrong as I've already pointed out for several locations |
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Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Sep 6 20:44:26 2015, in response to Re: Someone remind me, what is the point of light rail again?, posted by ElectricTraction on Sun Sep 6 10:05:35 2015. How so? Especially Linden Blvd from the Conduit to Kings Highway? |
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