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| "After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western (1343500) | |
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"After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:15:59 2015 After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western half of the Myrtle Avenue Line was closed on October 4, 1969, ending MJ service.Is it true that it was after a fire? It says citation needed for it on the M train wikipedia page and I can't find any evidence. |
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| (1343501) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015, in response to "After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:15:59 2015. No, it was hit by a truck, but the structure at the damaged pillar was shored up with wood so that service could continue to the final day, which had been planned months before.There was no fire. That is totally false. |
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| (1343502) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:25:14 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015. thanks, that will be changed. |
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| (1343503) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:25:49 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015. thanks, that will be changed. |
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| (1343508) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 16:55:35 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015. NO!!! You are thinking of the truck that struck a pillar at Drew Street on the Fulton St el, on Jan 22nd, 1953. |
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| (1343509) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by VictorM on Wed Mar 11 17:01:04 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 16:55:35 2015. But at that time (Oct. 1969) I remember hearing that a truck did strike the Myrtle Av el just before it was scheduled to close. |
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| (1343514) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 11 17:06:25 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015. I thought the Myrtle el was closed because they couldn't keep the Q cars running and it wasn't economical to replace them with a new fleet of dedicated el cars for that one line. |
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| (1343517) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 11 17:20:26 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 11 17:06:25 2015. The Myrtle el was closed in large part due to diminishing ridership. Had the downtown Bkln redevelopment taken place while the el was still up, it probably would have been retained. |
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| (1343519) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 17:28:41 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by VictorM on Wed Mar 11 17:01:04 2015. There was a fire at the Nostrand Ave station, but I think that happened after the closing. |
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| (1343520) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 17:30:13 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 11 17:20:26 2015. Randy, wasn't there a fire at the Nostrand Ave station? I can't remember the exact date, but it had nothing to do with hastening its closing. |
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| (1343524) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 17:58:43 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 16:55:35 2015. You are mistaken Elkeeper |
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| (1343534) | |
PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:43:24 2015, in response to "After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:15:59 2015. The things I do for you guys...
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| (1343535) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 11 18:50:01 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 16:22:45 2015. And everyone knows fire can't melt steel.
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| (1343537) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:53:43 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 11 17:06:25 2015. The Myrtle el closed because they could get away with it. R39 cars were already designed to provide lighter-weight equipment for the Myrt and the 3rd in the Bronx. Then they realized they could keep the money and just close the lines. |
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| (1343538) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Mar 11 18:58:07 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 17:30:13 2015. There was and although I don’t recall the exact date, but it happened on a day when I had just finished a run on Myrtle. |
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| (1343539) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 11 19:03:39 2015, in response to PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:43:24 2015. Wow. Looks like that truck did quite the number on that beam there.And thanks! ;) |
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| (1343540) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 11 19:19:20 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:53:43 2015. I think they should have gotten R39 cars. But 35 years later, they would have had to be replaced, and with AC equipment. That would add a lot of weight to the replacement of the R39. What would have happened then ? |
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| (1343541) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 19:28:19 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 11 19:19:20 2015. We would have had 40 years to figure that out. Rehab of the Myrtle is the most obvious. If you can keep the J running on Fulton Street, we could've kept Myrt going. |
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| (1343544) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 19:58:01 2015, in response to PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:43:24 2015. Thank you so much! |
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| (1343550) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 11 20:12:52 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 17:28:41 2015. Yup:
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| (1343552) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 11 20:13:32 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:53:43 2015. Politics at its best. (or worst) |
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| (1343554) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Mar 11 20:54:12 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Nilet on Wed Mar 11 17:06:25 2015. The Myrtle Ave El served the Brooklyn Navy Yard. The Yard's closing caused a severe ridership drop. |
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| (1343556) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Mar 11 21:20:50 2015, in response to "After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 16:15:59 2015. I miss that "el". :(Bill Newkirk |
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| (1343562) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:17:04 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Mar 11 20:12:52 2015. Yes, I do remember that photo, from 1970, I believe. No fire hastened the demise of the Myrtle Ave el. Take that, Wikipedia! |
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| (1343563) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:20:23 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Joe V on Wed Mar 11 19:19:20 2015. Like the Bronx-3rd Ave el, the Myrtle Ave el, south of Broadway, ran through some pretty bad neighborhoods. I'm sure this was also a factor in its demise. |
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| (1343566) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:26:53 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Union Tpke on Wed Mar 11 19:58:01 2015. So, it got whacked right before the end of service. It had nothing to do with its announced closing. |
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| (1343569) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Mar 11 23:19:24 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by randyo on Wed Mar 11 17:20:26 2015. Not as cut and dry as you make it.There was much more to it.It was part of a real estate deal that went sour,starting with Pratt. |
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| (1343570) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 11 23:53:07 2015, in response to PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 18:43:24 2015. Nice! Thanks for finding the picture and putting it up.Interesting for me though - was on the ERA farewell fantrip a couple of days after 10/4/69 - I went with my younger brother. We were in a hurry, made the mistake of not remembering that the fantrip started (I'm pretty sure) at Fresh Pond. We get off the F probably at Jay st., and holy sh*t, Mrytle-Jay is fenced off, with a "service discontinued" sign. I looked over at my brother, said, "---t! we made a mistake, should have remembered or read the fantrip flyer a little better." We both ran/ half trotted under the el, from Jay up to Myrtle-B'way. Yep - quite a distance! I was nineteen then, he was fourteen. Anyway, I'm sure we must have trotted/ran past the monstrosity of a jury-rig job. Probably noticed it, but certainly never remembered it.... The one thing I do remember was looking up the underside of the el structure at one point, and seeing the structural remains of the trackways from the Old Main Line cutting in from the left, and the trackway structures that would have continued on to the Lex. When I saw these, my reaction was, now I understand I what David Rogoff was referring to in his NY Div Bulletin article about abandoned structures on the BMT els. Also noticed the trackway structures for the 5th ave. el turnoff..... My brother and I made it to Myrtle-Bway in time - the train of Q's pulled in just after we got up to the platform. Don Harold was in the first car - I think maybe at the fron window..... |
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| (1343574) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 00:32:08 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 19:28:19 2015. Sounds reasonable. And hasn't it been written/observed more than once, that the replacement bus service from Jay to Myrtle-B'way is insufficient? |
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| (1343576) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 00:36:32 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Mar 11 21:20:50 2015. Your comment is completely understood by everyone else who was lucky enough to ride it..... |
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Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 12 02:33:25 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Wed Mar 11 20:13:32 2015. Shady political wrangling.... mixed with racial discrimination, that if carried out fully, would have decimated North Brooklyn's transportation network.The plan would have removed ALL elevated rail lines, including the Jamaica...shut down the Canarsie line..replacing EVERY THING with Buses. |
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| (1343583) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 12 02:56:27 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Express Rider on Wed Mar 11 23:53:07 2015. You ran from Jay to Broadway...Hmmm...Ive done that WALK, many times,and if you aren't use to it...it can be a bit much. |
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Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 06:18:58 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:26:53 2015. Correct. The truck was just an unrelated incident. The surprise was that the TA actually propped up the structure for the last few days of service. |
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| (1343586) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 06:24:34 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:17:04 2015. Someone posted it on Wikipedia and no one called it out. Until now. |
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Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 10:34:47 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 00:32:08 2015. It was a stopgap. They increased the frequency of the B54. I don't think anyone expected it to hold ridership.Myrtle was really doomed when it was cut back to B-J. |
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Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 10:36:12 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 22:20:23 2015. The whole gutting of the transit system in Central Brooklyn perpetuated a vicious cycle of decline. |
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Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 10:50:50 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 12 02:56:27 2015. yeah we did. It was more like a fast walk/trot/slow run that morning, and like I said, I was a bit younger, nineteen, and my brother was 14, the junior high age where you never slow down since your hormones are raging............. |
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Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Andy on Thu Mar 12 11:01:35 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Edwards! on Thu Mar 12 02:33:25 2015. Never heard about this one. Do you have any documentation? Sounds a bit far-fetched. |
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| (1343613) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 12 11:06:21 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 06:18:58 2015. Maybe they got the trucker/his company to promise to pay(under the threat of litigation) for the repair. I'm sure they had several fantrips lined up & didn't want to lose the $$$ that would have happened if service was stopped right then & there.An incentive for the repairs I'd guess. |
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| (1343616) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 12 11:28:59 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 10:36:12 2015. Although now that entire stretch of Myrtle is gentrifying |
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| (1343620) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Thu Mar 12 11:52:23 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 00:36:32 2015. I rode that line for four years going from Fresh Pond Rd to Jay St when I attended George Westinghouse V.T.H.S. yea even THAT'S gone too. Karl |
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Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 12:29:37 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Mar 12 11:28:59 2015. Because the young people New York is attracting are running out of affordable apartments. |
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| (1343625) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 12:33:24 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 12 11:06:21 2015. There were fan trips, as someone else here mentioned. And it would probably have been a pain to use trucking to pick up the station equipment and fixtures that post-closing work trains usually got. So actually a temporary fix might have been the course of least resistance. |
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| (1343632) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 12 12:51:24 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Wed Mar 11 17:58:43 2015. You are mistaken ElkeeperSurprise, surprise. How come the people who are most often mistaken/wrong here are the same ones who have a problem with me with respect to such things as calling out someone for unethically using others' photos? |
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| (1343634) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 12 12:57:16 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Mar 11 16:55:35 2015. NO!!! You are thinking of the truck that struck a pillar at Drew Street on the Fulton St el, on Jan 22nd, 1953.Looks like you are wrong. |
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| (1343635) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 12 12:59:27 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Andy on Thu Mar 12 11:01:35 2015. Never heard about this one. Do you have any documentation? Sounds a bit far-fetched.Edwards? Far fetched? No way! |
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| (1343636) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 12 13:02:19 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 10:50:50 2015. Railfanning and raging hormones --- not a good mix. |
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| (1343654) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 14:14:59 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 12:29:37 2015. Too many transit planners do not consider how the characteristics of a changing neighborhood over the course of ten - twenty years or more, will affect the transit needs of this area: neighborhood changing or improving, population density increasing along with business and commercial uses, etc.Myrtle avenue is but one example.... |
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| (1343657) | |
Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Mar 12 14:24:23 2015, in response to Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western, posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 14:14:59 2015. You have to consider the mentality of the time. New York seemed hell-bent to become Detroit, but being bigger it would take longer.And the Mentality of the TA was how to provide as little as possible with the money they had. |
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| (1343658) | |
Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western) |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 12 14:25:04 2015, in response to Re: PROFF!! (Re: ''After a fire damaged the structural integrity of the elevated tracks, the western), posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 12 13:02:19 2015. :)just joshing that the hormonal energy (ha,ha) gave my brother some kinda stamina to trot/run from Jay up to Myrtle-B'way.... for me? I'm not a jock or anything, but as a nineteen year old sophomore, in phys. ed. we had to run quarter miles twice a week. |
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