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| West Fourth Street (1336920) | |
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| (1336920) | |
West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015 I just realized yesterday that it was in fact true that the straight routes are Eighth Avenue – Houston and Sixth Avenue - Church St.I heard this before and yesterday I was on an E and if the E went straight it would crash into a turning M train. I then realized that Houston was the straight route. The M was right in front of us turning onto our track as we turned off. Just a question, but would it make more sense if services were arranged according to the track layout? |
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| (1336921) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 30 15:46:08 2015, in response to West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015. On the express tracks, there are no options. 8th Ave has to go to Church St and 6th Ave has to go to Houston.On the local tracks there is full flexibility. 8th Ave can go either place, and so can 6th. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:48:53 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by AlM on Fri Jan 30 15:46:08 2015. weren't there some crossovers taken away? |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 30 15:49:33 2015, in response to West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015. Geographically speaking, the 8th Ave-Houston route really isn't that straight. Whoever goes down Houston still has to do that ~90 degree turn south of West 4th. |
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| (1336926) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:56:36 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 30 15:49:33 2015. that's not what I mean, I mean the tracks line up perfectly so its 8 - Houstonand 6- Church |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by GIS Man on Fri Jan 30 16:05:52 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:48:53 2015. I don't know if such a switch ever existed, but today it is possible for a train coming northbound from Grand St. to switch to the 6th Av. local track and then to the 8th Av. local track, but the reverse is not possible, as there is no switch between the southbound 6th Av. local and express tracks.Bob |
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| (1336930) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 30 16:18:02 2015, in response to West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015. I don't know about now but in the past, you wanted as many trains as possible between PABT,NYP and the Financial District, so moving the C and E to Houston St. was unthinkable. |
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| (1336931) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 30 16:20:15 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:48:53 2015. IIRC, crossover east of Bway/Laf was removed when the Chrystie connection was built. |
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| (1336932) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Fri Jan 30 16:26:35 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:48:53 2015. There are no crossovers there. This is a flying junction. |
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| (1336941) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 30 17:10:28 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:56:36 2015. If you mean at the junctions, they still don't. I don't know the actual term, but they're like double-Y's - neither route has a perfectly straight alignment. |
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| (1336949) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 30 17:53:06 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by 3-9 on Fri Jan 30 17:10:28 2015. but they're like double-Y's - neither route has a perfectly straight alignmentIt has. 8th ave to Houston and 6th ave to Church are straight and the other way is the diverging route. |
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| (1336967) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:28:50 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by GIS Man on Fri Jan 30 16:05:52 2015. Prior to connecting the Houston St exp tks to the Manny B, there was a diamond Xover between the S/B exp and lcl tks just S/O Bway/Laf as per typical IND practice of having Xovers between lcl and exp tks at the leaving ends of stations. Probably due to the gradient to rise up over the S/B lcl tk, the S/B Xover was removed and although there was talk of installing a Xover N/O the station between the S/B exp and lcl tks, for whatever reason nothing has been done to date. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:33:14 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 30 17:53:06 2015. Although the 8 Av to Houston and 6 Av to Church are the physically “straightest” routes A1 to A1 and B1 to B1 S/O w4 St are considered “main” routes and the governing home signals display the bottom green aspect indicating a main route. There a a few other locations where the physically straight route is considered “diverging” and the curved route is “main." |
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| (1336969) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:35:04 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Wado MP73 on Fri Jan 30 16:18:02 2015. There was a time in the history of the IND when certain 8 Av lcls went down Houston St and 6 Av lcls went down Church St. |
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| (1336984) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 30 22:59:17 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:35:04 2015. Houston St Line opened on 1/1/36 from W 4th to E Bway. Service was provided by E train.Houston St Line was extended to Jay St on 4/8/36. E service was extended to Church Ave. With opening of 6th Ave Line on 12/15/40: A ran to Bway-ENY, AA/CC (rush) to Hudson Terminal, BB to 34th St, C to Hoyt-Schermerhorn, D to Hudson Terminal, E to Bway-Lafayette, F to Church Ave. On 10/24/49 rush hour change. A express to Euclid Ave, C discontinued, CC to Bway-Lafayette, E via Chambers St to Bway-ENY. On 10/30/54 routing changed. AA/CC to Hudson Terminal, D to Coney Island via Houston St, E to Hudson Terminal/Bway-ENY (rush), F to Bway-Lafayette. |
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| (1336987) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by The silence on Sat Jan 31 00:06:49 2015, in response to West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015. Well, that's not exactly correct. Look at the track maps and you'll see why. |
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| (1336989) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 31 00:39:02 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 30 22:59:17 2015. That pretty much covers it. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Sat Jan 31 12:33:28 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:33:14 2015. Yes, I am aware of that. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 13:54:04 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 30 22:59:17 2015. Except, that on 12/15/40, the "A" train would have terminated at Rockaway Ave. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 19:39:06 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 30 19:33:14 2015. such as rockaway boulevard. with ozone park as the diverging route. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Jan 31 19:52:11 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 19:39:06 2015. At Rocky Blvd. which way is Ozone Pk. The line to Lefferts which curves slightly to the right is the main route (bottom green) and the line to the Rockaways which is straight till it curves right under the structure is the diverging route (bottom yellow). |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 19:59:14 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 31 19:52:11 2015. ok |
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| (1337157) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 31 20:01:03 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 30 22:59:17 2015. And for the past 60 years, all 8th Ave. trains continue due south and all 6th Ave. trains turn east to Houston St. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 20:26:56 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sat Jan 31 20:01:03 2015. I'm guessing that, had the Second System been built, the "D" would have gone up/down 6th Ave and Houston St on the express tracks to/from South 4th Street, Brooklyn. |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 20:36:34 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 20:26:56 2015. Yes!Do you think that the C (Express) or the A would run via worth st? |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 20:40:34 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 20:36:34 2015. Are those bellmouths for local or express trains on 8th Ave? |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 21:26:07 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 20:40:34 2015. I guess local tracks, but express trains can use crossovers |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Express Rider on Sat Jan 31 22:33:01 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by randyo on Sat Jan 31 00:39:02 2015. re:With opening of 6th Ave Line on 12/15/40: ... AA/CC (rush) to Hudson Terminal, ... D to Hudson TerminalThat's three services into a two track terminal, during the rush hour. How did this affect headways and trains per hour for these services? |
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Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Jan 31 22:49:55 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Express Rider on Sat Jan 31 22:33:01 2015. AA was non-rush hour, CC was rush hour only |
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| (1337214) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Feb 1 01:36:25 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Sat Jan 31 21:26:07 2015. That may be true, but I suspect that probably either the E or the AA would have gone via Worth St. |
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| (1337229) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by renee gil on Sun Feb 1 05:35:55 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 13:54:04 2015. Bway-ENY station opened in 1946. |
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| (1337231) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 1 06:13:16 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 30 22:59:17 2015. When East Broadway was a terminal, did it have crew quarters? And where would they have been? |
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| (1337238) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Feb 1 07:27:57 2015, in response to West Fourth Street, posted by Union Tpke on Fri Jan 30 15:41:58 2015. On a recent RFW video of the holiday Nostalgia Train, you can see the train seeming to head right into another as it approaches W. 4th St. (northbound). It veers away at what seems to be the last moment and you can hear someone standing at the window let out kind of a sigh of relief. |
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| (1337245) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 1 07:44:29 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Elkeeper on Sat Jan 31 13:54:04 2015. My mistake. Thanks for the correction. |
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| (1337251) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Feb 1 07:56:38 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by 3-9 on Sun Feb 1 06:13:16 2015. I don't have the answer.It was a temporary terminal for 3 months in 1936. Mike Quill was still an IRT ticket chopper. There are many likely scenarios from having none (pre TWU) to setting aside part of the mezzanine as temporary crew quarters. |
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| (1337257) | |
Re: West Fourth Street |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Feb 1 09:41:55 2015, in response to Re: West Fourth Street, posted by Dyre Dan on Sun Feb 1 07:27:57 2015. A few years back, the old timers were rerouted up 8th Ave. during one uptown run. Too bad no one filmed the switchover from the RFW. |
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