|
|
| Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks (1309160) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 4 |
||
|
| (1309644) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 26 23:52:48 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Tue Aug 26 23:40:18 2014. I guess it will be. :(The motorperson had to walk to the other end to change ends, not sure what I remember of the story but I *think* it wasn't discharged although the T/O was told to discharge and return. Dunno ... |
|
|
| (1309645) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 26 23:53:14 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 26 23:52:48 2014. Whoops! Meant ... relay. |
|
|
| (1309647) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Tue Aug 26 23:59:48 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 25 14:12:22 2014. From w2hat I read, and most people are assuming the train went into the spur and came out on the same track. What appears to have happened is the train reversed direction inside the Canal St. station. Stopped, discharged, walked to other end and left. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1309648) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:01:31 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Tue Aug 26 23:59:48 2014. That's what happened. Had she gone into the A5 relay, she would have come out on the other side no worries. |
|
|
| (1309649) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:12:39 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 25 22:53:20 2014. Isn't there a permanent red/red on the south end of the n/b Jay Street station on the A line, to prevent a train that used the crossover from continuing in the wrong direction towards H/S s/b on the n/b track. Shouldn't there be a similar signal on the north end of s/b Canal Street? I also noticed red signal on the S/B 2/3 at Chambers Street pointing N/B in the center of the station. |
|
|
| (1309650) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:28:47 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Aug 26 16:39:04 2014. Why would an express track of a 4 track line be reversed signaled? Only the center track of a three track line are reverse signaledTrain enters a block in front of a reversed signal. The tripper is up (as if a S/B train just passed. Train passes the tripper, the tripper goes down as the train enters the block in front of the signal prior to the tripper hitting the rear of the lead car. She was only travelling 10 mph, if she was travelling 40-50 mph wouldn't the tripper have tripped the rear of the lead car before it would move down? |
|
|
| (1309651) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:35:03 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:12:39 2014. Not sure ... last time I was at either location was 40 years ago. I imagine they'll probably be sprouting such signals soon though after this episode. It's SO highly unusual for something like this to happen, that normally you wouldn't expect to see someone suddenly change ends without an interlocking sitting there right under their nose with a big bright homeball in their face. :(Just the absence of any signals ahead of me about to move should have been more than enough of a clue to get on the horn and start asking for a clarification of what I'm supposed to be doing here. You don't move without a clear path ahead of you. |
|
|
| (1309652) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:39:59 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:28:47 2014. That's my expectation as well as far as reverse signalling. The IND was originally designed so that if your track was out, there was another one next to you that you'd go over to, going int he same direction. That's why I didn't expect to see reverse signalling there anyway. That alone should have been a clue if you knew your territory.There ARE some sections though that do have some reverse signalling, and it's common on two track lines as well. And no, when ther isn't provision for reverse signalling, the tripper on the other end of the track is going to drive down just because your train is on the circuit. Trip goes up once your train LEAVES the circuit in the normal flow, that's how we were able to key by and close in on our leaders back in the days before they took away keying by after some fool hit his leader more than once. But no, on a single direction track, you don't GO the wrong way so there would have been no trips at all. That's why this episode here is so serious. Had that train she was headed for been around a curve, even though it was held behind a red, she could have done a head-on had she not seen the headlights. :( |
|
|
| (1309653) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 00:40:15 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:12:39 2014. Jay St.: Yes, because there is an interlocking (switches) there.Canal St.: No, because there is no interlocking (switches) there. |
|
|
| (1309654) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:42:47 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:39:59 2014. This by the way is also the reason why, when you had to wrong rail due to a GO or other unusual circumstance, they'd establish an "absolute block" on the wrong rail and you had to carry a wooden baton to the other end of the diversion and hand it off just to ensure that two trains would not be on the same track. That's also the reason they didn't have to do a reverse signalling in a lot of places because whoever had the stick got sole possession of that track until it was handed off. |
|
|
| (1309656) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by menJop on Wed Aug 27 00:46:56 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:42:47 2014. Heh. Token passing. |
|
|
| (1309657) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:47:37 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 00:40:15 2014. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around how anybody could wrap it with no signals in their face. :( |
|
|
| (1309659) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:48:16 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by menJop on Wed Aug 27 00:46:56 2014. Plenty safe ... accept no substitutes ... goes all the way back to the earliest days in railroading and it works! :) |
|
|
| (1309683) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 09:28:53 2014, in response to Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 24 21:12:24 2014. On a larger operational level, I wonder if incidents like this are why the NYCTA has endeavored to slow down the railroad dramatically since the early 80s. I know a simple fix would be to put some red-on-reds along the 4-track parts of the system, but how costly that would beis anyone's guess. |
|
|
| (1309704) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 13:15:12 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 09:28:53 2014. No. The railroad was slowed down due to the USQ & WillyB wrecks. |
|
|
| (1309722) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 14:52:57 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 13:15:12 2014. The 1991 USQ derailment was taking a switch too fast, which is motorman error. I don't know why the TA should in effect punish the riding public with slower service over something completely preventable. |
|
|
| (1309725) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 14:54:51 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 00:40:15 2014. There are switches at Canal but they are south of the station. The reason that there is no marker signal at the north end is that the interlocking machine is not designed for and will not permit a wrong rail move from any point S/O Canal into the station on the S/B track. Where such wrong rail moves are allowed by the machine, then a marker signal will be installed to prevent moves beyond that point. |
|
|
| (1309728) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 14:58:39 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:48:16 2014. Also, on the BMT we used to have a pilot who was usually a Tw/M who rode the trains through the single track area carrying either a green flag or lamp depending on whether the operation was in subway or on open sections. In a sense the pilot was like a human baton. |
|
|
| (1309731) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 15:05:10 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 14:52:57 2014. Because the system is supposed to bail out the t/o if he messes up by either slowing the train down or putting it into emergency. |
|
|
| (1309732) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 15:05:25 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 14:52:57 2014. Actually, the USq derailment was due to the fact that at the time, the GT signals which are in effect only for a diverging route did not g far enough back to give the T/O sufficient time to slow down for the switch. At best with only the approach and home signals on GT, a T/O encountering them would not be able to brake the train enough to prevent entering the switch too fast. AFAIK, the GT signals now start somewhere around 23 St so that a T/O now has plenty of time to slow the train down enough to negotiate the switch safely. Similar situations existed on tk 2 N/O 72/Bway S/B, Tk 3 S/O 72/Bway N/B and S/O USq on tk 3 N/B. I believe the additional GT signals have been installed in those locations as well. |
|
|
| (1309734) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Aug 27 15:09:22 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 24 23:03:58 2014. Were there female train operators back in the early to mid 70's in NYC? |
|
|
| (1309744) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 15:28:56 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Aug 27 15:09:22 2014. I'm not sure, but there were definitely female tower operators. |
|
|
| (1309746) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:42:18 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Aug 27 15:09:22 2014. According to Marian Swerdlow in her book "Underground Woman: My Four Years as a New York City Subway Conductor", up until 1980 motormen were all men. |
|
|
| (1309747) | |
First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train |
|
|
Posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:50:58 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:42:18 2014. Here's some info from the MTA's websiteMotormanette |
|
|
| (1309749) | |
Re: First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train |
|
|
Posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Aug 27 16:25:13 2014, in response to First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train, posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:50:58 2014. Why did they have a chemical lab? |
|
|
| (1309751) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 16:41:15 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 14:58:39 2014. The only time I had to do it, they handed me a wooden baton from the ground, had to pass it to someone on the other end entering the station. Looked like half a nunchuk and painted yellow. Next trip, they had everything up and running again. Ah, the adventures of oh dark hundred when track hadn't finished up overnight. :) |
|
|
| (1309752) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 16:42:03 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Aug 27 15:09:22 2014. No women in the early 70's ... none. |
|
|
| (1309753) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:45:53 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by shiznit1987 on Wed Aug 27 14:52:57 2014. The reason were a combination of the 15% increase in horsepower and the fact that the signal system was never adjusted to compensate for it. Trains were slowed down so that the safety factors built into the existing signal system, would be adequate until the signals were upgraded. |
|
|
| (1309754) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:47:07 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Wed Aug 27 15:09:22 2014. According to NYCT records there was at least one in 1976. |
|
|
| (1309757) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:51:46 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 14:54:51 2014. The switches on the southbound side are south of canal St while the switches on the northbound tracks are north of the station. |
|
|
| (1309758) | |
Re: First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train |
|
|
Posted by Bill West on Wed Aug 27 16:55:54 2014, in response to Re: First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train, posted by Kriston Lewis on Wed Aug 27 16:25:13 2014. Large companies often have their own lab or hire one to:-check oil fuel quality, when you spend millions and it comes in tankers or barges things like the amount of moisture condensed into the oil count. Sulfur content is another factor that is easy to cut corners on but gets one into environmental troubles. -up through the 50's the heat value and ash content of power station coal counted for seeing if the coal quality met spec. -testing diesel engine lube oil for combustion products and water is a popular method of locating long term maintenance problems -drainage water for yards needs to be checked for runoff pollutants -materials like rubberized canvas, plastic upholstery and floor lino can also be checked for incoming quality. It's one thing to make a warranty claim and waste time retiling your kitchen floor, it's another when it’s the floors of a thousand subway cars that later have to be redone. Bill |
|
|
| (1309759) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 17:08:45 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:47:07 2014. She worked yards only though. She didn't do revenue. |
|
|
| (1309760) | |
Re: First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train |
|
|
Posted by chud1 on Wed Aug 27 17:18:41 2014, in response to First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train, posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:50:58 2014. Excellent!chud1. :).... |
|
|
| (1309764) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by TransitChuckG on Wed Aug 27 17:48:07 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Wed Aug 27 15:05:10 2014. Thanks, Bill. |
|
|
| (1309765) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by randyo on Wed Aug 27 18:12:58 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:51:46 2014. Correct. That's typical of most IND express stations. The diamond Xovers between lcl and exp tks are mostly at the leaving ends of the respective stations with a few exceptions. |
|
|
| (1309768) | |
Re: First Woman Motorette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train |
|
|
Posted by BMTLines on Wed Aug 27 18:18:42 2014, in response to First Woman Motormanette....Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train, posted by heypaul on Wed Aug 27 15:50:58 2014. Pages 8 and 9 of the 1918 BRT Monthly has a feature on women conductors during WWIBy the way one difference between the IRT and BMT was that the BMT hired only women as Ticket Agents while the IRT preferred to hire men for the same position |
|
|
| (1309778) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 27 19:39:39 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Train Dude on Wed Aug 27 16:45:53 2014. The reason were a combination of the 15% increase in horsepower and the fact that the signal system was never adjusted to compensate for it.One factor you did not consider was the emergency brakes were below spec. N.B. they could have increased the emergency braking rate to compensate for increased maximum attainable speed (MAS) due to increased horsepower. In fact, the BOT reduced emergency braking rates with the introduction of the R10. The R1/9's spec matched the BMT's - emergency stopping distance 250 ft from MAS. The R10 spec was 275 ft. N.B. signal design adds a 35% fudge factor. The distance from the tripper on the WB to the point of impact was 288 ft. The follower's estimated speed at that tripper was 36 mph or 60 ft/sec. Stopping within 288 ft would have required an emergency braking rate of 4.25 mph/sec. The NTSB ran 3 tests on the bridge. On the first test the train hit the tripper at 34 mph and took 364.5 ft to stop. That's an emergency braking rate of 2.3 mph/sec. On the second test, the train again hit the tripper at 34 mph and took 358.5 ft to stop. That's an emergency braking rate of 2.4 mph/sec. The NTSB ran a third test as a control. Full service braking, rather than emergency braking was applied. The train hit the tripper mark at 33 mph and stopped in 162.2 ft. That's a braking rate of 4,9 mph/sec. It also stopped the train 125 feet short of collision. |
|
|
| (1309796) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Aug 27 21:19:52 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 27 19:39:39 2014. Another factor to consider, though, is that we're dealing with a train full of unsecured objects, er, sorry, passengers. Even if the brakes are capable of stopping the train in time to prevent a collision or derailment, if the braking is too abrupt, passengers could be seriously injured or killed simply on account of being thrown around the inside of the cars. Determining the right amount of braking force in such a situation may involve a balance of sorts. Also, the emergency brake can be applied maliciously or incompetently by a passenger, which has to be considered in determining how it will work. |
|
|
| (1309807) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 27 22:37:04 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Aug 27 21:19:52 2014. The emergency brakes on the NTSB test trains failed to meet the TA's 3.2 mph/sec standard by a lot.There was a fair amount of research done for making the PCC streetcar. One bit of research was how much acceleration/braking passengers could tolerate without the injuries you described. Their discovery was that much higher acceleration/braking rates were possible, so long as the acceleration was constant - i.e. no jerk. Consequently, the acceleration and service braking rates for the PCC's was 4.0 mph/sec. These were also the rates used by the BMT's experimental and Multi's. The PCC's were not magnets for whiplash law suits. There is some truth in what you said. The PCC's also used track brakes for emergencies (as did the Bluebirds). That's about 7 mph/sec. I experienced their unexpected application about 50 years ago, while taking a trip on Boston's Riverside Line. I was the only standee and was thrown half the length of the car. I sustained no real injuries. The golfer, who was playing his hole on the tracks at the Woodland Golf Course, would not have been as lucky. |
|
|
| (1309814) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Aug 27 23:50:17 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:48:16 2014. But...but.....it's not new tech....and you have to pay people too! MBA's would never go for it.Jimmymc25 |
|
|
| (1309818) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by Michael549 on Thu Aug 28 00:29:46 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:12:39 2014. From a previous message:Posted by jabrams on Wed Aug 27 00:12:39 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 25 22:53:20 2014. Isn't there a permanent red/red on the south end of the n/b Jay Street station on the A line, to prevent a train that used the crossover from continuing in the wrong direction towards H/S s/b on the n/b track. Shouldn't there be a similar signal on the north end of s/b Canal Street? I also noticed red signal on the S/B 2/3 at Chambers Street pointing N/B in the center of the station. -------------------------- I am guessing here, but here goes: I suppose that the Jay Street station (A,C,F) as well as the Chambers Street station on the (#2 & #3) are often used as terminals, just like the 34th Street-Sixth Avenue station (B,D,F,M). The usage of those normally "through" stations as terminals probably might have required more attention to the idea of handling trains that would in some sense be on the "wrong tracks". For example there are "GO's" where the #1 terminates on the express track at Chambers Street before traveling uptown. Just a hunch, but think of the 34th Street-Sixth Avenue station, before 1967 and the extension of the express tracks. Trains that terminated on the center express tracks did not have "worry" about uptown trains on the express track. After the new tunnel opened that worry had to be addressed. This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm wondering if the Canal Street station (A,C,E) was never envisioned to be used as a "terminal" under any scenario with reverse of the normal direction of travel movements. The station was designed as a "terminal" for its usual direction movements. For example under what circumstances would trains from Brooklyn travel up past Fulton Street and Chambers Street to terminate and relay at the downtown track at Canal Street? (I very much doubt even a direct layup to/from a Brooklyn train yard to/from WTC.) In other words to put "wrong direction train markers" alongside particular tracks, means that one envisioned the track being used that way, even if not very often. It is a bit difficult to design for or protect against events that one can not even imagine as extremely less than remote possibilities. Mike |
|
|
| (1309823) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:53:28 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by jimmymc25 on Wed Aug 27 23:50:17 2014. So have a TSS put down the radar gun and hand off the stick. Wrong railers can't go all that fast anyway. Problem solved! :) |
|
|
| (1309839) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 28 08:37:21 2014, in response to Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 24 21:12:24 2014. Thank goodness no one was hurt... |
|
|
| (1309882) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Aug 28 14:54:32 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Train Dude on Tue Aug 26 20:29:01 2014. I have zero MTA employment experience...but I still wonder why the T/O wouldn't have noticed that she had no signal in front of her in this instance.AFAIK, there's a signal in place at the end of every platform from which a train may depart- including reversing/wrong rail moves, like at Chambers St on the 1/2/3....(back in '01, I saw a #1 leave northbound from the southbound local track. They announced it, and the signal at the north end changed to yellow over yellow- otherwise, it's red-over-red at all times. |
|
|
| (1309896) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 28 16:17:36 2014, in response to Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by heypaul on Sun Aug 24 21:12:24 2014. Story made in Metro News. Sorry if this ia a re-postWrong way |
|
|
| (1309901) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by heypaul on Thu Aug 28 16:31:15 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by TransitChuckG on Thu Aug 28 16:17:36 2014. Thanks for posting this foul-up. If I read it right, the MTA met with the train operator about 2 weeks after the incident. It's reassuring to see that they are right on top of things. |
|
|
| (1309930) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by menJop on Thu Aug 28 22:45:31 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by Andrew Saucci on Wed Aug 27 21:19:52 2014. The Germans know how to handle that:
|
|
|
| (1309932) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 23:01:37 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by menJop on Thu Aug 28 22:45:31 2014. For those who don't sprechen ... "Quick-acting brakes! Please hold!" |
|
|
| (1309941) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 29 07:11:25 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by randyo on Tue Aug 26 19:20:49 2014. Yes, that's what I've seen- all reverse signals at red, unless a reversing move was actually occurring. Seems safer to me that way.In fact, I don't think any of the old BMT set-ups, where the reverse signals are dark, are even in place anymore- I've never seen them. |
|
|
| (1309942) | |
Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Fri Aug 29 07:17:02 2014, in response to Re: Uh oh.. Northbound A Train Was Travelling on Southbound Tracks--- There Was No Fog on the Tracks, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 00:39:59 2014. Aren't the tracks across the Williamsburgh Bridge are reverse signaled, so either can be safely used for single-track operation?Another place where it comes to my mind is the 63 St tunnel, no? |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 4 |
||
