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| Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained (1284354) | |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 13:50:44 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 13:47:15 2014. Plus any time you have, say, a rush hour NJT train loading at the same time that a non-through Amtrak train is terminating on the same platform, you'd want crowd control. I think it happens more often than people realize on the tracks that AMTK uses at least. It is probably less of an issue on the typically NJT only or LIRR only platforms. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 13:52:10 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 13:43:09 2014. From what I've heard/experienced myself, there is no predictable way to know whether AMTK monitors will position themselves to direct everyone through the main concourse. However, there may be correlation between those efforts and random bag checks at the top of the escalator (i.e. if there is a bag check operation in place, they will make a point of funneling everyone there so the checkpoint can't be evaded). |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 13:54:27 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 12:09:23 2014. I raised a problem with lion's explanation but your post did not offer a solution to that problem. Reread his post and then mine and then yours. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 13:59:09 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 13:50:44 2014. Yeah but that doesn't involve the boarding issues being discussed. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 14:01:52 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 13:52:10 2014. Oh noes! I meant DISPLAY MONITORS showing arrival and/or departure info. You watch the monitor and then when your train shows up, you head down to track level. It only makes sense you would take a staircase from a concourse/corridor that has Amtrak monitors. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by dand124 on Tue Apr 8 15:13:05 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Dan Lawrence on Mon Apr 7 12:50:56 2014. 
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 15:25:21 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 14:01:52 2014. Right, but my experience is that the powers that be are limiting those other options. And by the time I get to a concourse far from the Amtrak monitors, I might as well have waited on the line in the main concourse. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 15:33:00 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 15:25:21 2014. You said the door from the LIRR concourse was closed. That's not the one with the Amtrak monitors (except for one display at the south end). The normal way to do it is to use the Exit Concourse. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 16:34:24 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 15:33:00 2014. Which one is the exit concourse? |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 8 18:23:36 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Apr 7 20:59:02 2014. There's Amtrak monitors. In any case, you get the track number on the upper level, or figure it out from the arrival if a BOS-WAS run thru, then head down on your own. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 8 18:26:53 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 10:21:20 2014. The loads AMtrak's take in their 9 car trains of 72 seat coaches is child's play compared to some LIRR and NJT trainsThe reason they want to piss away $1.5B on Moynihan Station is to have a more "orderly boarding process". TRANSLATION: run it like Chicago and Washington. .. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 18:29:25 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 16:34:24 2014. The one immediately below Amtrak's Eighth Avenue concourse. It's the one referred to in the article linked in the OP of this thread. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 18:33:15 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 8 18:23:36 2014. Again, after getting the track number upstairs, why would you go out of your way to board via the Central Concourse? Why wouldn't you simply wait in the Exit Concourse, by a monitor, and then walk only a few feet to the staircase for your track? |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 18:36:34 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Joe V on Tue Apr 8 18:26:53 2014. Where is that reason given? And even if it's a given reason, it makes great sense. In the current Amtrak Concourse, the lines of cattle to the slaughterhouse half moon chutes severely conflict with pedestrian walking desire lines through the area. |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 19:42:00 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 13:54:27 2014. You responded to Joe V, not lion.He said the boarding process should not be slowed to make sure an idiot doesn't end up several states away from his intended destination; sucks to be him, but not for the people who actually paid attention. You said that many trains are sold out or very full, and having to take on an extra passenger would thus inconvenience people other than the idiot we all agreed no one cares about, creating a problem. So I proposes that the idiot be evicted from the train at the next stop and be obliged to stand until then, thus removing the inconvenience to the other passengers and solving that problem. |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Apr 8 20:03:10 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Mon Apr 7 14:25:24 2014. Several years ago then-president David Gunn spoke to the issue at a law school forum in lower Manhattan. He said that real New Yorkers don't put up with that nonsense, and do in fact avoid the queuing by using the stairs from the arrivals level at Penn Station. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 8 20:10:22 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 10:20:04 2014. The doors to the platforms are often closed for climate control reasons. They are held open by magnets so they can be closed remotely. To get past them, simply grasp handle and pull. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 8 20:15:43 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 8 00:08:52 2014. Yup:). Though, at least the boarding line sortof makes sense at ALB; they want to funnel everyone going to NYC to the front of the train, which is where the escalator drops you off. The few people going to intermediate stops can take the stairs. Similarly for westbound trains: the escalator leads you to the back, where the cars that aren't closed on arrival at Albany are.Now for arrivals, this all goes to hell, since everyone is always going to be at the wrong end of the train for the escalator. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Andrew Saucci on Tue Apr 8 20:50:01 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Tue Apr 8 10:18:24 2014. That's okay. Trenton or Philadelphia or Hartford would be fine. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 8 23:06:54 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Apr 8 20:15:43 2014. Yeah, but watching them scurry around to the other side with ridiculous amounts of rolling luggage makes for an entertaining show below. :) |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 9 00:54:27 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 18:29:25 2014. Right, I went down there on Sunday (via the escalator directly under the big departure board) to board my train on Track 10 and found the door to the stairs shut. The escalator was running in the up direction. |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 9 00:56:54 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Tue Apr 8 11:07:48 2014. Most commuter rail or transit stations do not have platforms nearly so cluttered, and far less people toting luggage along them. Also, FWIW, at Brussels-Central, track numbers are only announced moments before trains arrive due to avoid overcrowding that would result otherwise. This practice isn't unique to Amtrak. |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 9 10:07:34 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Apr 8 18:36:34 2014. It does not say that. Were they to say that, New Yorkers would lynch them, and rightfully so. If they want to behave like an air line, they should buy some airplanes.ROAR |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 9 11:25:43 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 9 00:54:27 2014. The escalator was running in the up direction.I wonder if it's an offense to run down an up escalator if there are no people on it. |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed Apr 9 12:07:41 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Apr 7 14:21:03 2014. In France and other European countries, this problem is handled by a couple of very simple practices.1. A platform with two faces (i.e., serving two tracks) will have the track numbers shown on signs ON THE PLATFORM, not just as you approach the platform, so that even after you get onto the platform, you can tell which track is which. 2. Any train's exterior coach doors will carry signs showing, at a minimum, the train's destination, and often the train number and intermediate stopping points as well. These practices together virtually eliminate all possibility of confusion for people who pay a modicum of attention. There's no reason Americans couldn't learn to look for these cues, IF AMTRAK WOULD ONLY USE THEM. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 12:13:01 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by fdtutf on Wed Apr 9 12:07:41 2014. 2. Any train's exterior coach doors will carry signs showing, at a minimum, the train's destination, and often the train number and intermediate stopping points as well.That practice is a holdover from/still necessary because of the tendency of different cars to have different destinations. |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed Apr 9 13:01:08 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 12:13:01 2014. IME, even trains that are only serving a single destination carry those signs. In any case, it remains very helpful for reducing confusion. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 15:01:26 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 9 00:54:27 2014. Yeah that's the Exit Concourse. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 15:08:26 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 9 10:07:34 2014. No. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 15:19:38 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Tue Apr 8 19:42:00 2014. Sorry, yes, Joe V.What I'm trying to say is that I gave the problem with allowing them to ride as far as they wanted on the wrong train, as he had proposed. Of course they could be kicked off earlier. I wasn't saying the problem was insurmountable. Just that his plan had a problem. |
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Posted by chud1 on Wed Apr 9 15:22:52 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Apr 9 10:07:34 2014. crucify them.chud1. :).... |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 16:36:37 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 15:19:38 2014. What I'm trying to say is that I gave the problem with allowing them to ride as far as they wanted on the wrong train, as he had proposed.And what I'm trying to say was that I proposed the solution to that problem. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 18:33:04 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 16:36:37 2014. And I'm saying you didn't need to because it's obvious and because his proposal was to let them ride as far as they want so your solution doesn't allow them to ride as far as they want. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 18:38:45 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 18:33:04 2014. Joe V did not propose letting people ride "as far as they want" without a valid ticket for that train. |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Wed Apr 9 18:44:48 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 12:13:01 2014. The Acela Express has them too (or did, at some point in the past). |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 19:35:50 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 18:38:45 2014. Ok, to a city potentially very far away from their original intended destination. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 21:24:20 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 9 19:35:50 2014. No, he said that the boarding process should not be slowed down to accommodate the occasional idiot who boards the wrong train. He didn't say anything about said idiot riding "to a city potentially very far away from their original intended destination." |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 10 18:29:26 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Wed Apr 9 21:24:20 2014. Yes he did. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Apr 10 18:44:00 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 10 18:29:26 2014. No, he didn't.You didn't take his post literally, did you? Talk about failure to understand nuance and context. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 10 20:07:23 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Thu Apr 10 18:44:00 2014. Yes he did. I responded to his scenario, as written. So that's yet another reason why your "solution" didn't make sense as a response to my post. |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 10 20:11:45 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 10 18:29:26 2014. I said I don't care if an occasional idiot gets on the wrong train - that is not a valid excuse to have the currently unacceptably slow boarding process. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Apr 10 22:55:06 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Apr 10 20:07:23 2014. No he didn't. He said... well... no need to put words in his mouth, he clarified here.As noted, you took his post completely literally and ignored the intended meaning due to your inability to spot nuance and context. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 11 12:01:25 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Joe V on Thu Apr 10 20:11:45 2014. I know what you said. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 11 12:07:13 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Thu Apr 10 22:55:06 2014. Yes he did. And I have no confusion about the intended meaning of his post. If you have a solution, you can post it in response to his post. |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 11 12:59:32 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Apr 11 12:07:13 2014. Joe V never proposed letting people ride across multiple states on a train for which they do not have a ticket; he said only that the boarding process should not be slowed down to accommodate idiots. When he said he doesn't care if "they wind up in Essex, MT rather than Essex Jct, VT," you took that completely literally and assumed he was proposing that the idiot be allowed to ride to a city potentially very far away from their original intended destination.As noted, you often fail to spot nuance and context. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 11 17:33:19 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 11 12:59:32 2014. Terrapin can't understand satire.Obviously the Vermont destined person would be put off by Newark or Metropark. |
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Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained |
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Posted by Nilet on Fri Apr 11 18:22:34 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Joe V on Fri Apr 11 17:33:19 2014. I've noticed. |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 22 19:28:39 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by dand124 on Tue Apr 8 15:13:05 2014. AGAIN more crap from dand124... It NEVER Ends!!!!! |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 22 19:49:20 2014, in response to Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Dand124 on Mon Apr 7 12:30:04 2014. And AGAIN!! MORE and MORE TRASH from Dand124!!! It NEVER ends!!! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Apr 23 15:17:45 2014, in response to Re: Amtrak’s insane train boarding rules, explained, posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Apr 22 19:49:20 2014. http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1284393 |
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