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| First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station (1277204) | |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 09:11:36 2014, in response to First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 25 09:01:33 2014. Ooh, I should head down there and take pictures. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 25 09:23:46 2014, in response to First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 25 09:01:33 2014. WTH, they really couldn't just build the new station around the platforms that was built in 2003?Seems like a waste of money to build platforms only to use them for 11 years smh. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 25 09:35:50 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 09:11:36 2014. I'll be waiting with the bail money. |
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| (1277218) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:07:00 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Silence on Tue Feb 25 09:35:50 2014. Don't be so sure; despite what you may think, I've never had problems taking pictures on PATH.I've been told that photography is illegal on the subway, on Metro-North, on the LIRR, on NJT, on SEPTA, on Amtrak, on public streets nowhere near any form of transit, and on the T in Boston and the L in Chicago, but the closest I've come on PATH is a cop who told me that photography is illegal in Newark Penn Station because it's in the general vicinity of PATH. Speaking of which, I really ought to post the RFW video I took of the trip between Journal Square and Harrison. |
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| (1277221) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:15:47 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:07:00 2014. Oh, I forgot— I was also told photography is illegal on MARTA, and on Metrolink in St. Louis.Curiously, I've been to 10 countries and I've only ever been told photography is illegal in one of them. Land of the free, everybody! |
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| (1277223) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:18:16 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:15:47 2014. Actually, there's one exception. I was told that photography is illegal in Vancouver— by an American customs official. So I suppose it's more accurate to say I was only ever told photography is illegal by one country rather than in one country.Maybe I should take a trip to North Korea so the US doesn't have to be so lonely. |
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| (1277227) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by P.Opus on Tue Feb 25 10:45:18 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 25 09:23:46 2014. This is somewhat misleading, I am pretty sure they are talking about refurbishing the existing Track 1 platform to its permanent configuration - they haven't moved the tracks. Last time I was there I noticed that only tracks 3, 4, and 5 had active platform faces, the 1/2 tracks were walled off. |
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| (1277246) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 12:45:19 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 25 09:23:46 2014. As 'Popus' noted, you are confused. They did not build a new station. They are remodeling/rebuilding the same station that has existed since the WTC first opened. It's just a really really really extensive remodeling/rebuilding. |
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| (1277254) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by The silence on Tue Feb 25 13:19:48 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:07:00 2014. I was kidding. |
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| (1277261) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 25 14:09:24 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 25 09:23:46 2014. Noticed that too, eh? |
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| (1277270) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by chuchubob on Tue Feb 25 14:45:46 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:07:00 2014. Don't be so sure; despite what you may think, I've never had problems taking pictures on PATH.I have. I've also been harassed for photographing PATH at Newark Penn from the NJT platform. |
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| (1277282) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by The Orion Kid on Tue Feb 25 16:23:03 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:07:00 2014. There's PAPD SWAT team guys armed to the teeth every few feet at WTC. Not a good idea. |
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| (1277284) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 16:32:37 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Orion Kid on Tue Feb 25 16:23:03 2014. They gonna shoot you? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 16:50:05 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Orion Kid on Tue Feb 25 16:23:03 2014. I'm not in the habit of conceding vital freedoms to armed thugs. |
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| (1277288) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 17:22:15 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 16:50:05 2014. Photography on PATH isn't necessarily a vital freedom. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 17:43:43 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 17:22:15 2014. Freedom of speech is.Photography is a subset of freedom of speech. Being a vital freedom, it applies everywhere, not just in designated locations. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Wado MP73 on Tue Feb 25 22:21:12 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 10:15:47 2014. Land of the free, everybody! Send the statue back to France! |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 00:13:32 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 12:45:19 2014. Truth!Vader |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 00:25:45 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 17:43:43 2014. Nilet, perhaps I can dummy it down a bit. Photography on PATH is not illegal so to say. It's just not allowed without permission. It is actually stated in the PATH's Code of Conduct rules which are posted at stations. It's a small gray sign with the rules and regulations. Missing at some stations but go to 9th Street and it's posted there by the kiosk. If you want to take photos there so badly, just apply for a permit. I work there and I'm not allowed to take pics either. I'd have to go through the same channels as you. So please, take my advice, go through the process and hey, you may luck out. Risk it, get detained by the PAPD, you'll have no one to blame but yourself for being detained and wasting valuable time of the police and your own time.Just my two SmartLink taps, Vader |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Edwards! on Wed Feb 26 00:35:48 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 16:32:37 2014. shoot You?perhaps. |
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| (1277332) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 07:18:54 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 00:25:45 2014. If you want to take photos there so badly, just apply for a permit.It's not like I haven't tried. The permit process is a sham. |
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| (1277334) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 26 08:02:21 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Orion Kid on Tue Feb 25 16:23:03 2014. I would imagine that even trifling with anti-terrorist units that haven't really had anything to do lately (fortunately!) is a bad idea. Here's what I'd envision happening to someone who got on their bad side:1) Fully Automatic weapons pointed directly in the subject's face 2) Subject forced to lie prone on the ground, perhaps given a little "help" in getting to that position. 3) Subject flexicuffed on the wrists, possibly ankles as well. 4) A not indistinct possibility of the subject being tased. 5) Charges dropped after a few days. Now, I suppose a really brave soul might want to go through all that to win a favorable verdict in a judicial court and/or the court of public opinion, and maybe the ultimate result would be a relaxation of PATH's ridiculous policy. But I'm not going to be the person who does this. No f***ing way. |
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| (1277335) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 26 08:03:20 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 17:43:43 2014. In principle, I agree with you. But see my earlier post regarding what I suspect would be the PAPD's reaction... |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 08:16:21 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 25 17:43:43 2014. That only applies on public property. At issue is how "public" PANYNJ property is. Is it as public as say MTA property? Or is it closer to private property? If you are convinced it is the former then you should go ahead with a lawsuit. But keep in mind that the NY Press Photographers Association claimed they were going into battle on this issue eight years ago but then nothing but crickets. Is it possible they came to a different conclusion than you?URL: http://www.railfanwindow.com/path-photo-ban.html |
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| (1277339) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 08:24:36 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 26 08:02:21 2014. Wait, are you talking about taking photos somewhere in their approximate vicinity, or prancing around them waving hands in their faces while repeatedly shouting "NOT TOUCHING YOU" in your most annoying voice?Because them reacting in the manner you describe in response to the former is unlikely at best, and in the off chance they did, the million-dollar lawsuit would make it all worthwhile. |
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| (1277340) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 08:30:30 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 08:16:21 2014. At issue is what the law says. If the law says I can't take photos, then that law violates the first amendment and is unconstitutional regardless of whether PATH counts as public or private.If the law doesn't prohibit photography, then it's not illegal and I can't be arrested for doing it, no matter what PATH's "policy" may be; worst case scenario, they can ask me to leave after I've already taken the photo I want. |
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| (1277344) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by NorthShore on Wed Feb 26 08:51:27 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Feb 25 12:45:19 2014. The original WTC PATH station and row on the site was destroyed.This new configuration was built post 9/11. |
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| (1277345) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 08:57:43 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 08:30:30 2014. What law? It's PATH's Facility Operation Code, which is separate from the Rules and Regulations enacted by the legislature of both states. The first part of the code is that by entering path, you agree to it. So if you violate it, they can tell you to leave. And if you don't leave, then you're trespassing. Very similar to how it works on private property. So it has nothing to do with a law. It has to do with what I said in my previous post. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 09:01:39 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by NorthShore on Wed Feb 26 08:51:27 2014. I know what happened. Are you saying the new track and platform configuration is different from the original? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 10:04:42 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 08:57:43 2014. This exchange started here, when The Orion Kid implied that photography might cause trouble with the police, which carries the implied statement that it violates the law. I explained that photography is a vital freedom protected by the first amendment and any law restricted it is unconstitutional.Then you changed the subject to private property and, in doing so, conceded the original point that taking photos on PATH would not cause trouble with the "PAPD SWAT team guys armed to the teeth every few feet at WTC" because it is not a criminal offence that they'd have any basis for arresting me over. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 11:08:54 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 07:18:54 2014. No, it's possible your name may have come up from previous incidents you've had with the NYPD during that fear period in the subway. Since you've tried, it's just best to just let it go. Not worth it. Wish I could help you more.Vader |
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| (1277366) | |
Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Wed Feb 26 11:12:25 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 25 09:23:46 2014. Not really since the new one now holds ten car trains |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by The Orion Kid on Wed Feb 26 11:15:52 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 08:30:30 2014. The signs at every station say violating Port Authority rules of conduct is an "arrestable offense in NY and NJ". |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 13:26:47 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 10:04:42 2014. I was the first respondent and I implied that he was nuts.Why would you respond about some hypothetical situation without making clear that it was not based on reality? Since you and I already know that it's not a matter of law, your sub thread is completely irrelevant. My initial response to you was for that reason. Why confuse people and make them think the law has something to do with this when it doesn't? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 13:29:36 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 11:08:54 2014. So it's not a sham? You know of people who have easily and reasonably obtained a permit and successfully took photos? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 13:31:49 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Orion Kid on Wed Feb 26 11:15:52 2014. The sign I photographed in a path station many years ago says that the photography restriction is part of the "facility operation code" which is separate from the "rules and regulations". It also says that violating the code prety much revokes your permission to be on the property. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 15:31:04 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by The Orion Kid on Wed Feb 26 11:15:52 2014. If that's true, it would mean two states must have codified such a thing into their laws (since I doubt the feds would). I don't suppose you have a cite for either state?If it's true, then that law is unconstitutional and I'd be happy to go to court and challenge it. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by NorthShore on Wed Feb 26 15:49:03 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 09:01:39 2014. The current platform and track configuration was built post 9/11. It is not the original from the Twin Towers. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 16:15:01 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Lord Vader on Wed Feb 26 11:08:54 2014. First of all, as my post indicated, I applied for the permit in 2006. My first run-in with the NYPD wasn't until April of 2007, so unless a couple power-tripping MBTA rent-a-cops decided to phone up an entity several states away over a run-in too minor to generate any paperwork, I couldn't possibly have been on anybody's radar. I'm not sure what you meant by "fear period" though.Second, I've never actually broken any laws, so my name isn't in any systems, and therefore it wouldn't come up today, let alone in 2006. The Port Authority doesn't have access to NYPD personnel logs or shift reports or whatever minor bits of paper get written up after each conversation a cop has, and they don't have access to summonses that got dismissed because those are declared void and sealed by law; even if they illegally accessed confidential records (which is a stretch), there's nothing that would give them legal grounds to deny a permit— discrimination of any sort because someone accused me of breaking the law when I didn't actually break the law is specifically banned by New York State. I'm the one who will actually be taking the photo, facing the risks, and (if necessary) challenging and overturning an unconstitutional law (or more likely, simply suing for false arrest since photography isn't actually illegal), so I'm the one who gets to decide whether it's "not worth it" and therefore should "just be let go." Admittedly, I'm not going to go downtown for the sole purpose of challenging the theoretical (but probably unlikely) reaction of potential cops (who may not actually be present) to an activity that is certainly not illegal. My railfanning time has been cut considerably, and if I do have an afternoon free, I'm more committed to getting a last RFW on the 7 express, or seeking out an M3 bound for Port Washington if I can spare an extra hour or two. However, while I may not end up personally challenging this particular (theoretical) photo ban, I nonetheless respect anyone who makes the effort to support photography rights anywhere. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:40:32 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 15:31:04 2014. Of course both states codified the rules ad regulations. But is the photography rule part of the rules and regulations? Didn't I already address this? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:43:21 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 15:49:51 2014. Let me stop you right at the beginning. He never said you would be arrested. That was where you went wrong and never recovered. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 16:46:16 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:43:21 2014. Ah, I see, your problem is failure to understand implicit statements and/or figurative language.See, when someone says "you shouldn't do X if the police might catch you," they're generally implying that X is illegal. That's where you went wrong and never recovered. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:53:33 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 16:46:16 2014. Nope. He just mentioned the police. He never said what'd do. They could, correctly, stop you from taking photos (I.e. Tell you to stop) as per the Facility Operation Code. You assumed much worse. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 17:01:20 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:53:33 2014. As I noticed, you have a problem understanding implied statements. See, when someone mentions the police responding negatively to an action, that implies the action is against the law, even if the purely literal wording of the statement doesn't specifically preclude them from merely asking me to stop as per a code lacking force of law.Referring to the cops' armaments further reinforces the implication that their expected reaction was decidedly less than cordial. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 17:05:38 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 16:40:32 2014. I wasn't talking to you.Shut up and let the adults get a word in edgewise. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 17:06:34 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 17:01:20 2014. Not at all! Photography is against the Facility Operation Code! Why wouldn't the police enforce that? why are they only allowed to enforce laws and not said code??? |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 17:10:19 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 17:05:38 2014. LOL! Lookie who's getting all offended now when I make a sound rebuttal to something you've posted? You really need to consider the possibility that I know what I'm talking about here...because I do. |
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Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Feb 26 17:19:25 2014, in response to Re: First platform to open for new World Trade Center PATH station, posted by Terrapin Station on Wed Feb 26 17:06:34 2014. why are they only allowed to enforce laws and not said code???You're kidding, right? Police have never had the authority to enforce the dictates of private individuals or entities. Enforcing the laws is their thing. It's what they do. If PATH is a private entity, as you believe, then the policies they decide to make do not have force of law and are thus not the domain of police to enforce. |
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