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| Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck (1256630) | |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 1 15:01:22 2013, in response to Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by andy on Fri Nov 1 14:36:04 2013. The curve is still there, but not usually in service. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Fri Nov 1 15:11:59 2013, in response to Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by andy on Fri Nov 1 14:36:04 2013. may those who died rest in peace. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Fri Nov 1 15:41:26 2013, in response to Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by andy on Fri Nov 1 14:36:04 2013. Try and get a copy of Brian Cudahy's book, THE MALBONE STREET TRAIN WRECK. It gives quite an insight into what led up to the crash and the b&w pictures of the wrecked cars is quite a shock. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 1 15:49:46 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Hart Bus on Fri Nov 1 15:41:26 2013. Didn't some survivors of the actual wreck then get killed by turning the 3rd rail back on ? |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 15:57:45 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 1 15:49:46 2013. Sadly, yes. The crash occurred during a strike. When it shorted out the third rail power, BRT officials, unaware of the crash, thought it was employee sabotage. As some of the survivors were trying to grope their way along the third rail, BRT officials attempted to re-energize it. I do not know exactly how many were electrocuted like this. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 16:12:48 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 15:57:45 2013. No, that's not true. It was a lie that was picked up by the yellow press and kept alive by Sunday Supplements.Almost everyone who died died from blunt force trauma. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 16:13:11 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Joe V on Fri Nov 1 15:49:46 2013. No. See my answer to Elkeeper. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 16:18:02 2013, in response to Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by andy on Fri Nov 1 14:36:04 2013. My mother was an 8-y.o. girl at the time. She heard the sound of the crash more than a mile away. She said it seemed like everyone in Flatbush either had a relative on the train or knew someone in the neighborhood who did. |
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| (1256661) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 16:33:05 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 16:12:48 2013. Wrong! Read Stan Fischler's book, "UPTOWN, DOWNTOWN". On page 81, he gives the details of the electrocutions in the tunnel. |
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| (1256668) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Nov 1 17:34:13 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 16:33:05 2013. Sadly, a lot of Fischler's stuff is based on the contemporary newspaper reports - and Brooklyn gossip. Cudahy did real research, combing through the what were then Coroner reports. He also used that to stabilize the death count, AND identify most of the victims. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 18:25:34 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 16:33:05 2013. No, Fischler is wrong. As a rail historian, he's a great sports writer. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Nov 1 19:35:41 2013, in response to Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by andy on Fri Nov 1 14:36:04 2013. One of my friends had a grandfather who was a special officer for the IRT and had been working at the construction site of the IRT E/Pky line at the time of the wreck. According to my friend, his grandfather was sent to the scene to assist in the search and recovery and one of his duties was to issue burlap sacks to the local children in the area and have them go to the tracks to retrieve body parts. True or not, I can't say but it's not beyond the realm of possibility. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 21:18:29 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 16:33:05 2013. Stan's a great guy and all and a most excellent story monster too. And he loves his subway trains. Alas, his research for all of his books turned up a few pages short of a Sunday magazine for the quality of detailed information. Stan's a great read, but sadly a lousy investigator. Cudahy did it properly. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:38:38 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 21:18:29 2013. So, nobody was electrocuted by the third rail? The attempted re-energizing of the 3rd rail never happened? |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 21:43:50 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:38:38 2013. Exactly. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:52:26 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 21:43:50 2013. I guess you are right- my mistake! Finally found my copy of Cudahy's book and I read page 74. None of the 93 death certifictes had electrocution on them. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:01:06 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:52:26 2013. Like I said, Stan's a colorful writer, but not the greatest fact checker in the world. As long as you approach what Stan writes knowing that, then Stan's stuff is still always interesting to read. :) |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:02:07 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:38:38 2013. If you look at the photos with the third rail all torn up, I'd think they'd have a hell of a rough time trying to light them back up with all that steel shorting them out. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 22:03:41 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:52:26 2013. Not your mistake really. "Popular" history writers sometimes choose colorful rumor over solid but less interesting research because it makes a better story. Trouble is, this "Sunday Supplement History" has legs. It gets repeated so long that some writers repeat it thinking its truth. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:07:14 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Fri Nov 1 22:03:41 2013. There's basically two styles of journalism ... one is story-telling (which goes for the interesting but not necessarily true "human interest" angle) which makes for lots of readers and adulation, and the other is the historian type who writes for posterity and accuracy. The latter's style almost ensures that the outcome is dry, unreadable and uninteresting. But those are the ones you turn to for any serious research. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 1 22:14:39 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 21:18:29 2013. Tabloid fodder vs real reporting, you might say. I am reminded of an early Lois and Clark episode in which Perry White laid down the law: "Hard facts! Now go out there and get me some!" |
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| (1256731) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:56:43 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Fri Nov 1 22:14:39 2013. I'm sure his paper was a few truckloads short of them at the time. :) |
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| (1256757) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by zac on Sat Nov 2 09:02:32 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Elkeeper on Fri Nov 1 21:38:38 2013. And I just heard an NPR story about "War of the Worlds" basically debunking the story of a huge panic. There were a few calls to CBS that were picked up by the press, and by the end of the media hype it morphed into mass hysteria. The mass hysteria story has lived on. 98% of the radios in the country were NOT tuned into CBS at the time.People believe what the media want them to believe. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Dan on Sat Nov 2 09:27:21 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by randyo on Fri Nov 1 19:35:41 2013. Doubtful, even in 1918. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 09:27:48 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:07:14 2013. You can do both. Or at least you can add "colorful" details that may be historically unimportant but still accurate. Part of the problem is WHO is doing the writing and for what audience. A publish-or-perish academic eyeing his PhD or a popular writer seeking to entertain. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 09:31:32 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Dan on Sat Nov 2 09:27:21 2013. IAWTP. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 09:33:16 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Dan on Sat Nov 2 09:27:21 2013. IAWTP. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 16:51:38 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 09:27:48 2013. That too ... but you also have that literary wall of having to decide which side of same you're on - fiction or non-fiction. They require a different approach and mindset and few do both sides well. |
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| (1256818) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Nov 2 17:46:43 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by zac on Sat Nov 2 09:02:32 2013. The newspapers of the 30's bashed radio every chance they could, because....radio was draining ad revenue from the papers.Nobody was listening to Welles at the time - Charlie McCarthy was on! |
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| (1256820) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by blue8irt on Sat Nov 2 18:07:44 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 1 15:01:22 2013. Why is it not in service? I rode through there about 5-6 years ago. |
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| (1256821) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 2 18:11:28 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by blue8irt on Sat Nov 2 18:07:44 2013. It is in service. You *can* ride through it. But only two trains a day use it.There are two trains on the shuttle in the day time, there is one train on the shuttle at night. Guess where the other train goes? Yup, to the southbound track via that tunnel. It is easier to take it out of service over there where there is nobody waiting to take it back the other way. LION does not know if it carries pax out in the AM, I suppose if you ask, they will let you ride, but they are not going to announce that the next train out is over on the other platform. ROAR |
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| (1256822) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 18:11:54 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by blue8irt on Sat Nov 2 18:07:44 2013. Use of that track for the Frankie would require that relays to go back cross all four tracks of the Brighton line. Screws up service. Since the trains are choreographed to meet at Botanic Garden, they only need one track at Prospect for service and thus they use the track that doesn't get in the way of the Brighton line except for the overnight layup and equipment changes. |
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| (1256826) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 19:24:16 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 2 18:11:28 2013. They probably take it south of Prospect Park then into O2 track for pax. In order to leave from the southbound track toward Fulton Street they'd have to wrong rail all the way to Park Place. |
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| (1256827) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 19:28:39 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 18:11:54 2013. Yet they made that movement every 6-12 minutes when the Shuttle we running for nearly 40 years. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 19:51:12 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 19:28:39 2013. Yeah, but well ... Empty-yay now. :) |
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| (1256832) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by murray1575 on Sat Nov 2 20:08:33 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 19:51:12 2013. The crossover which allows Franklin Shuttle trains to enter Prospect Park on the uptown local track was actually installed in 1958 long before the MTA was created. |
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| (1256833) | |
Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Nov 2 20:12:39 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by murray1575 on Sat Nov 2 20:08:33 2013. Yep ... but the desire not to cross trains across the Brighton line came much later. :) |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 2 21:32:50 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 19:24:16 2013. Yup you are right, I had not thunked about that, but if the other train was still in the east slot, what difference would it make?ROAR |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 21:54:05 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Broadway Lion on Sat Nov 2 21:32:50 2013. I guess they could also wrong rail both trains for one interval. I would think the best idea would be to move the OOS set to the northbound pocket overnight. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by zac on Sun Nov 3 06:20:27 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Sat Nov 2 17:46:43 2013. But yet the myth lives on and is taken as truth. You say "War of the Worlds" and people today will tell you about the panic that ensued. It just isn't true.I also believed the story about the 3rd rail, but I must have read the wrong book. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 3 10:45:29 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 1 22:56:43 2013. Quite possibly. I remember another line of his: "We print this, we're gonna look like the National Whisper." A mythical counterpart of the Nationa Enquirer, I presume. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by Hart Bus on Sun Nov 3 12:02:39 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sat Nov 2 21:54:05 2013. I and several railfans wrote the 22:45 s/b from Fulton Street on November 1, 2008 (90th Anniversary) in hopes of riding over the infamous trackage. That night the T/O was ordered to lay-up south of the northbound platform.Perhaps something can be worked out with the TA for November 1, 2018, five years from now |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 3 13:42:12 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Hart Bus on Sun Nov 3 12:02:39 2013. Dougie heading down the incline at the contols of 1227? |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 3 13:44:21 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 3 13:42:12 2013. he already done it coming back from shortbeach,lost the pole & he kept a thunderin` along. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 3 13:48:47 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 3 13:44:21 2013. NoS-curves at Bera Brae though. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Nov 3 13:51:34 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SLRT on Sun Nov 3 13:48:47 2013. LE CONTRARE.AT QUARRY TRESTLE THERE IS A SLIGHT S CURVE. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 3 16:32:53 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Sun Nov 3 10:45:29 2013. And to think ... all these years later, the Enquirer was doing better than many of the "real" newspapers. :( |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Nov 3 21:13:06 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 3 16:32:53 2013. One of the TV shows I watch refers to a "National Inquisitor" tabloid, a definite reference to the Enquirer. |
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Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Nov 3 21:25:22 2013, in response to Re: Anniversary of Malbone Street Wreck, posted by randyo on Sun Nov 3 21:13:06 2013. And to think ... before cable news, they were the laughing stock of the industry. Not anymore! :) |
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