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| (1250623) | |
CTA collision |
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Posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013 http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/2-Trains-Collide-on-CTAs-Blue-Line-225791591.html |
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| (1250637) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 11:18:37 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. o.0 That's bizarre. CTA has full ATC backed up with trip stops at wayside signals. |
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| (1250639) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 30 11:23:42 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 11:18:37 2013. Now they're saying one of the trains may have been stolen from the yard. |
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| (1250640) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by BLE-NIMX on Mon Sep 30 11:26:18 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 30 11:23:42 2013. Before we do any Darius jokes here, he has more than enough experience to avoid collisions by now |
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| (1250642) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 11:31:16 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 30 11:23:42 2013. Stolen or not, their signal system is obviously for shit. No excuses. |
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| (1250645) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Sep 30 11:35:37 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 30 11:23:42 2013. remember railroads never admit to a roll away, so it must be stolen ;-) |
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| (1250646) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 11:39:08 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. Units involved are 3171 and 3177, with 3177 being the worst damaged. Not sure which hit which; which was moving/stationary etc.wayne |
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| (1250648) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 11:42:12 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 11:31:16 2013. Um, all ATC systems can be cut out for contingency operations. |
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| (1250649) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 11:43:20 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Sep 30 11:35:37 2013. Stolen by gravity. |
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| (1250652) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 30 11:51:00 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Sep 30 11:35:37 2013. 
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| (1250655) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Sep 30 12:17:22 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. Irwin, you're the expert on the CTA - what's your opinion? |
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| (1250656) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 12:37:12 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 11:39:08 2013. Not among the 2600-class that were to be replaced by 5000's. |
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| (1250678) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 15:17:51 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 12:37:12 2013. I do believe that this is the first incident involving this stock. 3177 looks to be a write-off, with a significant buckling of the car body and damage to the roof. 3171 has damage to the bulkhead (top is pushed in).wayne |
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| (1250679) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:19:17 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Dave on Mon Sep 30 12:17:22 2013. CTA Collision |
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| (1250680) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 15:23:37 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:19:17 2013. "Both the supervisor in the station at Forest Park and the motorman who was sitting in the station said there was nobody on the train as it went through and collided with the other train," Kelly said.Reminds me of that Del Shannon song. |
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| (1250682) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:25:37 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:19:17 2013. Yes, "I wonder". This train wreck is baffling.I hope we get the answers. |
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| (1250685) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 30 15:34:52 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. The "stolen train" theory is now being dismissed:http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/09/30/blue-line-crash-how-could-it-happen/ |
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| (1250688) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 30 15:57:32 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:25:37 2013. The National Transportation Safety Board is sending investigators to Chicago to investigate today's collision of a CTA commuter train.Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/CTA-Train-May-Have-Been-Stolen-from-Yard-Sources-225801251.html#ixzz2gPLw8iue |
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| (1250689) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jon Bell on Mon Sep 30 15:59:44 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 15:23:37 2013. "...nobody on the train..."I'm flashing back to "The Taking of Pelham 1-2-3" and the gizmo that defeated the dead-man control. |
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| (1250690) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by fdtutf on Mon Sep 30 16:07:16 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:19:17 2013. [ATU President Robert Kelly] said it takes two keys to start -- one to get in the motorman's booth and one to turn on the train. He said the second key is universal.Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/CTA-Train-May-Have-Been-Stolen-from-Yard-Sources-225801251.html#ixzz2gPNoMYYr So the first one isn't universal? It would pretty much have to be. I know that when I worked in Stockholm, we had a problem with unauthorized keys circulating (I once had the middle cab of my train vandalized early on a Sunday morning); I wonder whether CTA has a similar problem. |
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| (1250691) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 16:11:42 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Jon Bell on Mon Sep 30 15:59:44 2013. A dead man switch requires functional brakes |
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| (1250694) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 16:21:52 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Jersey Mike on Mon Sep 30 16:11:42 2013. Does not explain why the manned train did not get a red light and forced to stop. |
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| (1250695) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Mon Sep 30 16:27:41 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by fdtutf on Mon Sep 30 16:07:16 2013. Keys to RR facilities have circulated in railfan circles for decades. I lost 2 different switch keys some 34 years ago. |
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| (1250705) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 17:40:50 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Sep 30 15:34:52 2013. Google Earth Harlem CTA station and you see a track map from the yards when you pan left.That train left the yard and some bad stroke of luck got routed to the westbound track at Harlem Station Address: 701 Harlem Ave., Forest Park, IL 60130 |
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| (1250711) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 30 18:23:44 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 17:40:50 2013. LION thinks it must have broken some switches to do it, for if it were otherwise then the revenue train would also have been aligned for the yard. |
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| (1250716) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by VictorM on Mon Sep 30 18:46:30 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 16:21:52 2013. The manned train have already been stopped in the station to let passengers off and on when the other train blew through the interlocking. |
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| (1250720) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Sep 30 18:49:50 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 15:17:51 2013. Those are indeed 2600s. That was a 600-car order.Imagine if a 4000-series car had been involved. Steel, steel and more steel. |
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| (1250735) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 19:17:05 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Mon Sep 30 18:23:44 2013. We will see when the final report comes out. |
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| (1250740) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Sep 30 19:39:12 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Sep 30 18:49:50 2013. Imagine if a 4000-series car had been involved. Steel, steel and more steel.Yup, just like this: |
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| (1250745) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by aaron on Mon Sep 30 19:43:23 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. More interesting reading at www.chicagobus.org. Go to CTA Rail section. |
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| (1250746) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Sep 30 19:43:27 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by WillD on Mon Sep 30 19:39:12 2013. Only CTA 4000s like BMT steels had no crumple zones. They didn't crumple. |
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| (1250750) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Sep 30 19:48:44 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 15:17:51 2013. Why such a huge difference in crash performance between the two cars?My blog |
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| (1250763) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by WillD on Mon Sep 30 19:58:20 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 30 19:43:27 2013. No, they'd crumple. It's supreme hubris or foamer delusion to think that rolling stock of that era would not crumple under similar circumstances. A lack of crumple zones merely means the carbody will buckle uncontrollably in the passenger cabin, much like the WMATA 1000 series cars. |
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| (1250768) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 20:07:00 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by randyo on Mon Sep 30 19:43:27 2013. BMT Standards had 2 or 3 run-ins with R16's and R27's, and lived to tell about it. The younger SMEE victims did not. |
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| (1250782) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 20:50:34 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Sep 30 19:48:44 2013. Likely an angle at the point of impact.wayne |
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| (1250783) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 21:05:49 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Sep 30 18:49:50 2013. I'm not sure if the 4000's had the heft of, say, the 1926 IC Gulf stock. They didn't seem any more substantial than Lo-V's from the look of it. Lo-V's had the propensity to crumple badly at the ends in collisions; Hi-V's even more so.wayne |
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| (1250825) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 1 00:53:45 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Mon Sep 30 21:05:49 2013. The 4000s, at 38 tons, were considered heavyweights in Chicago. They wouldn't have stood up too well in a crach with a Big Orange South Shore car or, for that matter, a BMT standard. But they probably would have inflicted some damage to modern equipment. |
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| (1250827) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 1 00:56:34 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 1 00:53:45 2013. CTA 4000 vs. 6000?-w- |
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| (1250855) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Oct 1 07:41:34 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 20:07:00 2013. For a Standard, the R-27 *is* the Crumple Zone.Put two standards face to face and something must give. ROAR |
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| (1250860) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Oct 1 08:06:46 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by aaron on Mon Sep 30 19:43:23 2013. LION replied to that article:A switch is called "a switch". An interlocking or more properly called an "interlocking plant" is an arrangement of several switches controlled by an "interlocking machine" located in the switch tower and controlled by a towerman. The machine is usually an computer in today's world, and the towerman might be controlling the entire railroad instead of a single plant. An "interlock" is a figment of an uneducated reporter's imagination. If the switches were aligned for the "ghost train" to access this particular track, then they were also aligned to send the revenue train into the yard. This is unlikely. The ghost train clearly broke through switches to get to where it ended up. Why does Chicago not have black boxes on their trains? Newer ones should have them. New trains on NYCT all have them. Just because "they saw no one at the controls" does not mean that this was so. The train can be operated in reverse from the other end of the train. (ROAR) |
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| (1250867) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 1 08:49:33 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 1 00:56:34 2013. No contest - the 4000 would win. |
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| (1250871) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 1 09:27:48 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Oct 1 07:41:34 2013. Not sure if two Standards ever had the proverbial "Cornfield Meet" but there WAS an incidence of a collision between two D types. It measured 3.4 on the Richter scale.wayne |
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| (1250912) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by chud1 on Tue Oct 1 15:18:41 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Broadway Lion on Tue Oct 1 07:41:34 2013. they had a story on this on cnn.chud1. :).... |
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| (1250915) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Tue Oct 1 15:27:11 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. Doesn't the CTA have the same type of trip arm at signals that would force the train to stop by applying it's brakes ? Karl |
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| (1250918) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Oct 1 15:30:39 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Tue Oct 1 15:27:11 2013. Yes. In addition to the cab signal control, interlocking signals have trip arms. |
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| (1250921) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by NorthShore on Tue Oct 1 16:20:01 2013, in response to CTA collision, posted by monorail on Mon Sep 30 10:31:16 2013. At least no train driver is to blame. |
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| (1250950) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 1 18:50:01 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Tue Oct 1 00:56:34 2013. Didn't a CTA 6000 (or similar PCC car) once have a run-in with a CNSM train with predictable results ? |
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| (1250952) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Joe V on Tue Oct 1 18:52:56 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Karl M, Ex New Yorker on Tue Oct 1 15:27:11 2013. Trip arms I believe only at interlockings, or just certain ones. |
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| (1250961) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Oct 1 19:13:32 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by Joe V on Mon Sep 30 20:07:00 2013. The BMT standards were damn near indestructible. |
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| (1250962) | |
Re: CTA collision |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Tue Oct 1 19:14:52 2013, in response to Re: CTA collision, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Sep 30 15:19:17 2013. ATU union president Robert Kelley used the term "motorman".Does CTA still use that term ? Bill Newkirk |
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