|
|
| Amtrak Locos into NYO (1207125) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
|
| (1207126) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 14:06:56 2013, in response to Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 13:58:06 2013. As i came to understand, Amtrak will not allow LIRR to operate in diesel mode into Penn Station. But what about Amtrak's own lcoomotivesAmtrak does permit LIRR dual-mode operation into NYP. What they do not permit is a train coming through the East River tunnels in push mode (can't navigate the third rail gaps properly when your train has the locomotive on the back), which is why LIRR dual-mode trains have a locomotive on each end. Or, does Amtrak have its own dual mode locomotives for these runs? If so, do they operate on 3rd rail or catenary power? Yes, and third rail. They are the P32AC-DM (the last two letters for "dual mode"). Metro-North Railroad operates them as well.  Before that, Amtrak used the FL9, into Grand Central and (later) NYP.  |
|
|
| (1207127) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Feb 26 14:07:40 2013, in response to Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 13:58:06 2013. Amtrak uses duel mode P32acdm locomotives for Empire service. they own 18 of them just for this purpose. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1207128) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Feb 26 14:08:15 2013, in response to Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 13:58:06 2013. Amtrak uses dual mode P32acdm locomotives for Empire service. they own 18 of them just for this purpose. |
|
|
| (1207132) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 14:27:47 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 14:06:56 2013. Thank you. I knew that the LIRR DMs operate into NYP. But thhey must be in eloctric mode, right? |
|
|
| (1207133) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 14:28:43 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Dutchrailnut on Tue Feb 26 14:07:40 2013. Thank you!!! |
|
|
| (1207152) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 16:43:31 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 14:27:47 2013. Yes, and the main issue is that they must not stop in a gap at the eastern end of NYP where ventilation is at a bare minimum (contrast GCT and the western end of NYP), thus gassing people when it would become necessary to turn the prime mover on to get the train moving again. That's why there are locos at each end of a LIRR dual-mode train, AIUT. |
|
|
| (1207182) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Tue Feb 26 18:16:35 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 16:43:31 2013. If they built a loop track in the west side yard, maybe they could get away without doing the whole double-headed thing. |
|
|
| (1207184) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 26 18:21:28 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 16:43:31 2013. Gassing people is a PR disaster that could be avoided by recruiting a NJT or Amtrak engine to tow the train out of the gap, probably at great expense.Though this being the MTA, they'd probably have to weigh their options first. |
|
|
| (1207193) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 19:24:56 2013, in response to Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 13:58:06 2013. The 700 number series P32DM that Amtrak uses on the Empire corridor only use the shoes in the station and in the empire connector tunnel built in 1991 when in revenue service. They are of course used in movements to/from the Sunnyside yards. Once a revenue train is on the Empire connection beyond the tunnel the shoes are retracted and the prime mover takes over. This is also done because they are over-running and not compatible with Metro North under running 3rd rail. |
|
|
| (1207195) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 19:38:22 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by J Trainloco on Tue Feb 26 18:16:35 2013. They'd need a loop at the other end of the line too. Montauk and Port Jefferson have short wyes (enough to turn a locomotive), but Greenport doesn't have a wye. |
|
|
| (1207197) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 26 19:57:42 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Feb 26 19:24:56 2013. When they get outside in Queens they to turn the Diesel back on as Sunnyside Yard doesn't have 3rd rail, maybe someday Amtrak would order cab cars for the Empire Service so trains don't have to go Sunnyside just to turn around, and then they could also terminate at tracks 1 - 4, I wonder why they don't use tracks 1 - 4 for the Keystone trains.. |
|
|
| (1207205) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Feb 26 20:28:16 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 26 19:57:42 2013. That's where they park and clean them between trips anyway. I'd much rather be in a locomotive than a cab car for that trip. |
|
|
| (1207206) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Tue Feb 26 20:28:35 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 19:38:22 2013. Fair enough... couldn't cost that much to do. |
|
|
| (1207207) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by J Trainloco on Tue Feb 26 20:29:20 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 19:38:22 2013. Wait, Greenport? It doesn't run any through diesels anyway... right? |
|
|
| (1207208) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 20:29:50 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Tue Feb 26 19:57:42 2013. maybe someday Amtrak would order cab cars for the Empire Service so trains don't have to go Sunnyside just to turn aroundThat isn't going to happen. Most likely due to the third rail gap problem as well. IINM, Empire Service trains terminating at Rensselaer are wyed there too so that the trains always have the loco on the front and the seats don't need to be turned. |
|
|
| (1207229) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 01:11:34 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 16:43:31 2013. If they insist on dual mode operation it could make sense for the LIRR to buy ALP-45DPs or something similar to replace the DM30ACs when that time comes. That'd take care of the gapping problem. |
|
|
| (1207261) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 27 07:23:50 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 16:43:31 2013. Got it. Thank You. |
|
|
| (1207262) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 27 07:28:39 2013, in response to Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Tue Feb 26 13:58:06 2013. Thank You, all. Very informative answers. Bottom line is that nobody's running in diesel mode into Penn... |
|
|
| (1207264) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 07:42:08 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by J Trainloco on Tue Feb 26 20:29:20 2013. Right. Greenport still uses steam engines. I guess they must still have a turntable. Oyster bay still has its turntable but it is no longer connected to the railroad. How useful is that. |
|
|
| (1207275) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:23:49 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 01:11:34 2013. If they insist on dual mode operation it could make sense for the LIRR to buy ALP-45DPs or something similar to replace the DM30ACs when that time comes. That'd take care of the gapping problem.You could always install a section of overhead third rail as was done at Grand Central Terminal many years ago. The electric motors assigned to GCT all had a small pantograph mounted on the roof to prevent gapping. The first half of the FL-9 order had a small roof mounted pan as well. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (1207286) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:26:26 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 01:11:34 2013. Yeah, and the LIRR could have bought the already developed and tested DMs that Amtrak and Metro North bought... |
|
|
| (1207287) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:28:13 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Feb 26 20:29:50 2013. Do Amtrak coach seats turn? I don't think they do... |
|
|
| (1207293) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Buddsilverliner269 on Wed Feb 27 11:22:46 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:28:13 2013. Yes Amtrak seats do turn. Take notice next time you're on an Amfleet you notice a foot pedal to step on to unlatch the seat to turn it. |
|
|
| (1207297) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 12:03:29 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:23:49 2013. I'm afraid that would be problematic given that the tunnel ceilings throughout the PSNY complex are already occupied with Amtrak's high voltage AC catenary. |
|
|
| (1207300) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 27 12:23:45 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Nilet on Tue Feb 26 18:21:28 2013. Gassing people on Metro North was the norm, in the early days anyway. I've been on Poughkeepsie bound trains leaving GCT with 7 coaches & 2 FL9s up front going up tk 4 in notch 8 & the diesel smoke was so thick inside the car that it was almost impossible to see from one end to the other, at least in the first three cars anyway.By then, few if any of the MN FL9s would run on 3d rail. It got so bad one time that the passengers were starting to panic thinking that the train (#851) was on fire. The conductor had to get on the PA to restore calm. "Don't worry folks, the train is not on fire, the smoke will dissapate once we get out of the tunnel" That was all well & good, but god forbid you lit up a cigarette! |
|
|
| (1207305) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 27 12:52:35 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:23:49 2013. yup and the FL-9 pantographs were rendered in operative real fast real early in FL-9 life. as sparks and oil in engine room did not mate well.The pantograph would send sparks down winterization hatch right down on governor and oil sump. |
|
|
| (1207306) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 27 12:53:02 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 12:03:29 2013. minor detail ;-) |
|
|
| (1207310) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by R30A on Wed Feb 27 13:07:23 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:28:13 2013. On most cars. A few are not turnable. |
|
|
| (1207312) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Feb 27 13:38:29 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 27 12:23:45 2013. Wow... |
|
|
| (1207328) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 14:37:12 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:26:26 2013. Weren't they a little heavy for LIRR use? I thought that's why the LIRR didn't pick them up. |
|
|
| (1207345) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 27 15:43:03 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 14:37:12 2013. the DE/DM are not lighter by any means |
|
|
| (1207352) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 16:13:14 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:28:13 2013. Yes, they do turn, but who will turn them? Is there a union for car seat turners. Conductors could do it but no, they get paid too much and you do not want to use them for work like this and then have them die out on the road. Car Knockers could do this, but then you would need to hire more car knockers. Car cleaners could do it but then the Car Knockers union would complain. In the end the train has certain cars that they want to run a certain direction forward, and because at some stations there are loops that the train could pass through on its way to the yard, and other stations like Chicago which trains must back in to and so would be correct anyway. That would also keep the cars in the correct order assuming that the train was not to be broken up in the yard anyway.AND IF A PASSENGER should mess with the seats the train crew will become highly upset afraid that the geese would leave them that way and someone else would have to fix it. It is not like the old days with the flip over seats. LION loved the flip over seats, when the train arrived at NYP, him would run down the isle flipping all of the seats to the consternation of father and the delight and amusement of the conductors. ROAR |
|
|
| (1207353) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 16:13:45 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:26:26 2013. They could've bought Shoreliners too. |
|
|
| (1207354) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 16:14:36 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Wed Feb 27 10:28:13 2013. They do, but not in the same way as commuter cars. |
|
|
| (1207361) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 17:04:23 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 27 15:43:03 2013. Then I'm totally in the dark as to what logical reason they had for not picking tried-and-tested Genesis locomotives. |
|
|
| (1207365) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 17:16:00 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 16:13:45 2013. Which can hold more sitting people, the bi-levels, or the latest Shoreliners? |
|
|
| (1207367) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 17:34:38 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 17:04:23 2013. It's difficult to say the Genesis locomotives were 'Tried and tested' in 1998 when the DM30ACs and DE30ACs entered service. The AMD-103, Dash 8-40BP, or B40-8MP had just entered service in 1992, and Amtrak's P32AC-DM followed three years later. The Genesis series certainly wasn't tried and tested in the early 1990s when the LIRR would have been making decisions regarding the future of their motive power. At that time EMD was still flogging the F69PHACs as an alternative to GE's passenger locomotives.For whatever reason EMD was able to convince the LIRR (and perhaps more importantly, key NY politicians) that their partnership with Super Steel would allow them to produce a locomotive in NY state able to run more effectively on third rail and thus operate in mixed traffic with EMUs. Of course the only promise that was kept was that they were indeed built in NYS but that was probably the important thing to the people that mattered. That LIRR got something of a dog was less important and by the time they realized that, it was too late. |
|
|
| (1207371) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 18:33:47 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 17:16:00 2013. Bilevels don't seat much more than the single levels, and the single levels with the center door would be faster to enter/exit. C-3 cab cars and trailer cars both with toilet have 137 seats while toiletless trailer cars have 143 seats (per Kawasaki website). IIRC, Shoreliner trailers sans center doors can seat up to 130. |
|
|
| (1207373) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 18:42:09 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 17:04:23 2013. Have you met Alfonse Da'matto?He made the decision, go ask him |
|
|
| (1207375) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by kp5308 on Wed Feb 27 18:58:10 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 16:13:14 2013. Nice...a fellow seat-flipper from way back :o) |
|
|
| (1207380) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by The silence on Wed Feb 27 19:36:14 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by MainR3664 on Wed Feb 27 07:28:39 2013. Bottom line is it's a violation of city law for the railroads to do so outside of an emergency. |
|
|
| (1207383) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 19:54:48 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Wed Feb 27 08:23:49 2013. You could always install a section of overhead third rail as was done at Grand Central Terminal many years agoThe ceiling at NYP isn't unoccupied. Lots of wires up there. And I don't think that the P32AC-DMs in GCT use the overhead third rail. |
|
|
| (1207384) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO |
|
|
Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Wed Feb 27 19:58:04 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYO, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 16:13:14 2013. You overestimate the power of railroad unions these days. They are a shell of what they used to be in terms of power & influence.Work rule changes, give backs, its the way is out there. Go to union meetings, lotsa of chest thumping but little else. Bitch about a problem?? they tell you be thankfull you have a job. Most RR unions are working w/o a updated contract. No raise in several years but no problem accepting a union dues raise. With most union dues goin up much faster than the cost of living index, coupled with the increase of the payroll tax, union RR employees have suffered a de-facto pay cut. There'd be an earthquake over in East Rutheford NJ A/C Jimmy Hoffa's body spinning like a lathe in his oil drum intered in the end zone in the old Giants stadium if somehow word got back to him on how union influence and real meaning has dissapated over the years |
|
|
| (1207387) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 27 20:05:26 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 18:42:09 2013. Him and Paturkey - jobs for Schenectady. Got Jim Tedisco re-elected and installed as minority leader in the Assembly. D'Amato didn't care if the LIRR got lemons, he doesn't ride the train anyway. |
|
|
| (1207395) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Wed Feb 27 20:34:16 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 18:33:47 2013. It's more than worth noting the C3s accommodate their passengers with 2-2 seating thereby avoiding the "hated" middle seat. According to that same website from Kawasaki the MBTA bilevels with 3-2 seating can seat between 175 and 185 passengers. So yes, Bilevels do carry more passengers, with a seating arrangement on each floor similar to a Shoreliner. |
|
|
| (1207401) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Feb 27 21:16:31 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Feb 27 19:54:48 2013. no overhead third rail anymore in GCT, it has all been removed. |
|
|
| (1207404) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 21:34:08 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by Broadway Lion on Wed Feb 27 18:42:09 2013. *sigh* back to Alfonse D'amato. I'd rather kick his butt, not ask questions. |
|
|
| (1207407) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 27 21:47:20 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by 3-9 on Wed Feb 27 21:34:08 2013. 
|
|
|
| (1207424) | |
Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Thu Feb 28 00:59:21 2013, in response to Re: Amtrak Locos into NYP, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Feb 27 21:47:20 2013. Ah, I haven't seen that face in a long time! Here's to not seeing it again for a long time! |
|
|
