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| (1141908) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:12:39 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 26 16:12:15 2012. Hell..you really didnt know if you were in Queens or Brooklyn back then..and you sure as heck cant tell today..[Im in Both everyday!] |
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| (1141909) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:27:00 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 16:01:28 2012. The MTA wanted to eliminate the J[from Crescent to 121] due to the proposed Montauk-63rd connection using the Jamaica El and Archer avenue subway..The riders..neighborhood and all of North Brooklyn saw this as a very sneaky way of the MTA to eliminate the El as a way to cut the cost of rebuilding[like the did all the other elevated lines in Brooklyn that are sorely needed today]..and to reduce its "responsibility".. Not only was that a backwards way of doing business..it would also strand thousands of customers to riding neighborhood buses as feeder routes to the subway..which in more ways than one would lead to more disaster[see the B54/38/52 and BX55 bus line that subbed for the Lexington Avenue,Myrtle and Third avenue elevated].. Who's idea was it to do away with the main portion of transportation operating in the city? It couldnt have been a problem to the riders.. It couldnt have been due to "blight of the structures".. who decided that they were no longer feasible..no long viable..no longer needed? I know who it was..but I'd like to hear from you guys...to get you thoughts on it.. |
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| (1141910) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:29:38 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 18:37:12 2012. Small world,indeed. |
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(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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| (1141911) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:29:49 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 26 20:06:39 2012. So did I, the day before my 21st birthday on Oct 4th. Changed at B'way-Myrtle and went upstairs to the old Broadway station. Rode down to Bridge-Jay, back up to Metropolitan, back down to Bridge-Jay, then back to B'way-Myrtle. Bittersweet 21st birthday that year! |
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| (1141913) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:38:36 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 15:22:05 2012. yeah..BUT..that in and of itself does not say that there weren't decent hard working people living in those neighborhoods..even by today's standards. My old hood was rough as heck..but my parents did their job..taught us well..which is WHY IM here today to tell you about it! Trins61 KNOWS the deal EXACTLY about "the old days" in Bedsty.. Dont get me wrong..It was rough..but I wouldnt trade it for "nuthin in da world". You guys who were on the OUTSIDE looking in..you can talk about it..but in order to KNOW THE FACTS..You had to BE THERE. |
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| (1141914) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 26 20:39:41 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 26 16:12:15 2012. And drop the pretense about "the Brooklyn side fell." Decline and other crap did not stop at St. Nicholas or Cypress. It may have been masked better but that is all.... And drop the pretense about "the Brooklyn side fell." Decline and other crap did not stop at St. Nicholas or Cypress. It may have been masked better but that is all. Property values may not have fallen as dramatically as "the Brooklyn Side" but decline they did, and they did not begin appreciating anything worth mentioning again until around 2003. I had other relatives on Seneca by Grove and their neighborhood got rather sketchy by the mid-70s as well...they and friends of theirs were mugged or burglarized a number of times (which made them ultimately move out by the mid-80s). I myself was nearly mugged on 2 different occasions walking Gates between Onderdonk & Woodward on the way to visit friends in the late 1980s (and they were burglarized 3 times, mugged 4 times, and had their car broken into a half-dozen times between 1986 and 1989). You are totally exaggerating that the QUeens side got "bad". I lived there, and I never had a problem. I lived there until the mid 90's, and my family since the 40's, so I know very well what was "bad" and what was not bad. I don't know where they were walking when getting mugged on Gates near Woodward, but I never heard anything like that, and didn't live far from there. The only thing that you aren't exaggerating about is the fact that cars were broken into a lot in the 80's. That's absolutely true, but that was true for MUCH of Queens, Queens had a huge problem with car theft and break ins in the 80's, not just "Ridgewood". The city, not the Post Office dictated whether something was in Kings or Queens county (though, in practice, the city routinely ignored the border as it saw fit). The city's declarations determined the infrastructure, political and economic jurisdictions. And yes, it absolutely was the post office that delivered the Ridgewood (Queens) mail out of the Brooklyn Post office until 1980. Property values may not have fallen as dramatically as "the Brooklyn Side" but decline they did, and they did not begin appreciating anything worth mentioning again until around 2003. LOL!! Much like the rest of the city got a burst in the 2000's. The values went up in Ridgewood as evenly as other parts of the city in the 70's to the 90's. They did not fall like they did on the Brooklyn side. My great-aunt's and uncle's deeds for the bakery on Wyckoff and the building they lived in on the north/west side of Harman said they were in Ridgewood, county of Queens; the ones for the other side of Harman said Ridgewood, county of Kings. The city never could explain why the property on the "Brooklyn" side was deeded as being in Queens, or why their property tax bills had them going back and forth between Brooklyn, Queens or sometimes even being billed twice (once for each county): The buildings were blocks from the border on the map Only because the original border went as a straight line instead of the zig zag on streets it does now. If you draw a straight line from the two ends of the zig zag starting at around Flushing Ave and Cypress and straight down to Moffat and Irving (by the railroad tracks, Moffat is cut off on the map although you can see the corner), that was the original border. It's QUITE clear why you had that discrepancy at Harman and Wyckoff, as that would have been right in the line with the original border, before they realigned the border. As I said, the original line cut not only through blocks, but through houses! Someone could have a kitchen in Brooklyn and a bedroom in Queens with the old set up. There's no controversy at all as to why they would have had that discrepancy, I am telling you why there was that discrepancy. With the new line, it was quite clear Harman and Wyckoff was already deep in Brooklyn (when I say "deep", I mean very clearly in Brooklyn, not like the streets right on the border (like parts of wyckoff where one side is Brooklyn and the other Queens. The border by Harman is not even near Wyckoff, it's way up at Cypress. THAT's what I meant by "deep" in. Most of the time you saw 83rd Precinct cars and beat cops all the way up by Woodward, not the Queens cops I NEVER saw anything but 104th Precinct cars, and I was right off Woodward. ConEd and the phone company considered them all in Queens but the gas, water and DOT said all of them (including Onderdonk) were in Brooklyn. I TOLD you why that was the case. Until 1980, all of Ridgewood was served out of the Brooklyn Post office. Our address numbers were even in the Brooklyn 1X-XX number sequence. It wasn't until Forest Ave where they jumped into the 60-XX Queens sequence. All our mail, until 1980 came to Brooklyn, NY 11227, even though were were far from the Brooklyn border (about 5 blocks actually). It was because the post office in Brooklyn served us, not the Queens post office. In 1980, Ridgewood got it's 11385 Queens zip code, and served out of the Queens post office. The border didn't change, only the post office designation did, that is why you would have gotten "Brooklyn" mail on Onderdonk Ave, no other reason. We got the same thing. In the 30's, my grandparents lived over at Harman and Woodward, and their mail was all "Brooklyn 27, NY also". The border didn't change. |
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| (1141915) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:40:25 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:27:00 2012. If I remember correctly, it was a study done for the MTA which, mercifully, was never adopted. I always thought that it was ironic to cut the jamaica el at Cypress Hills, when, in 1967-68, the MTA had a crane just west of Alabama Ave, ready to install a third track on that phantom ramp to a never-built express track over the Fulton St structure. The crane never moved, except when it was dismantled. Does anyone have ANY idea how much money the MTA has pissed away since 1967? |
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| (1141916) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 26 20:47:14 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:12:39 2012. For the most part, folks in Ridgewood considered "Brooklyn" to start at Broadway. Bushwick was more of an extension or satellite because many Ridgewoodians had family, friends or businesses there. If anything, Ridgewood fancied itself as a destination, where those who did well moved up to. (That somewhat explains why there is an attitude demonstrated by some beyond St. Nicholas that somehow made them a "better class" than those on the "Brooklyn Side." Interestingly, it seems that mentality was espoused more by those who arrived from the 1920s on, and particularly during the Depression.) |
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| (1141917) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 20:47:31 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 19:39:00 2012. august 27th 1982 for me,ROOKIE.I did 15 years,came on 2/29/68[transit poh-lic]3/14/69 city poh-lice. |
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| (1141920) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:49:06 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:38:36 2012. The same thing that happened to you in Bed-Sty happened to us in ENY!Not exactly on the outside, were we? |
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| (1141921) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:50:38 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 20:47:31 2012. How many years total, Brother? |
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| (1141922) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 20:52:43 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Feb 26 20:06:39 2012. Only but so far,did the G run neck and neck with it..and the gap in between them was still large enough to be noticeable..If the G line was pushed up to Broadway,like it was SUPPOSE to..but That is besides the point. The fact of the matter is the city went about it business eliminating ESSENTIAL TRANSPORTATION FACULTIES,without replacement..forcing riders to use feeder buses..which were later reduced in service..all which lead to their "reduced responsibility"..which in turn lead to LARGE GAPS in specific service areas ALREADY underserved by the MTA. |
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| (1141924) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 20:56:45 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:40:25 2012. enough to build a REAL 2nd ave subway. |
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| (1141925) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:59:00 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 26 20:47:14 2012. That "Snobbery" pre-dates the 1920's by many years. In Williamsburgh, the established German Jews opposed the Willy B's construction because it would allow poor Lower East Side immigrant Jews to walk over the bridge and possibly ruin their neighborhood. |
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| (1141926) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by trains61 on Sun Feb 26 21:02:14 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 19:34:48 2012. My point still stands. You rode past those neighborhoods on the Q cars. I lived in them. Big difference. You don`t throw out a whole bushel of apples because a few are spoiled. Most folks were hard working long suffering folks. trying to do the best for their families.Now you can consider yourself educated, from a different perspective. |
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| (1141927) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:03:56 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 20:56:45 2012. And a subway tunnel connecting to the "F" at 7th Ave/9th St, via Ft Hamilton Parkway! With just 2 more stops in Brooklyn- New Utrecht/45th St and 59th st/4th Ave! |
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| (1141930) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 21:10:42 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:50:38 2012. 15 years.got hurt,couldn`t get 3/4`s was told,my choose,go back to full duty or do you want to retire on half pay.I told them i,ll go back to full duty if you give me the 111 109 or 107pct`s all quiet queens pct`s.Oh no said the job,you HAVE to go back to the ghetto.FUCK YOU was my answer.I survives 2 shootouts,was stabbed,fought riots IN the station house,when do I pick up my 1st pension check? as in all ghetto cops I maintain contact with a lot of guys I used to work with.we meet on the 1st monday of every month in a diner for a roucious breakfeast plus several times a year for dinner,always a good time.i,m out 30 years this coming august. |
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| (1141931) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:12:34 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by trains61 on Sun Feb 26 21:02:14 2012. Point taken! Perhaps, if everyone in your neighborhood was as good as your parents were, some of those neighborhoods could have been saved. I think we can agree on that, right? |
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| (1141932) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:13:07 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 26 13:16:15 2012. if thats the case..there are other "low use"stations that could go bye bye..and not just on the subways either...Lets start with the entire Green port route..all of the Montauk past Babylon..west hemstead |
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| (1141933) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:13:47 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 26 14:17:11 2012. canarsie is fine..leave it alone. |
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| (1141936) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:20:06 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Dupont Circle Station on Sun Feb 26 20:47:14 2012. They could have "considered" whatever they chose..I lived right on the Bushwick/BedSty boarder for years[attended Both Bushwick High schools]..didn't matter much to us either way..guess from our stand point..we simply didn't care about such petty bullshit. |
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| (1141938) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:24:12 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 21:10:42 2012. Since you know a lot of guys who worked in ENY, maybe you can find out if any of them know when the took the Fulton/Pitkin el down. It was still up in early 1960, when my great uncle drive my down Pennsylvania Ave. Can't find any info on it, here or anywhere else! |
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| (1141939) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 21:57:15 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:24:12 2012. these guys are long since retired[early `70`s]no contact with them at all,probably gone to that big station house in the sky.there has been posts on when it was taken down including photos. |
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| (1141941) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:58:18 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:12:34 2012. you are not looking at the larger picture..No one is making excuses for economic hardships that translated into crime.. However..its easy to point the finger without taking into consideration the other four fingers pointing back at ones self. We have a more or less general idea how the "hard times" hit the more depressed nabs worst that others.. We also have a general idea how the the government turned its back on many places that were hit the hardest..especially the CITY OF NEW YORK.. But..most of all..we all have an idea how the "HOPE" was snatched out of those neighborhoods by RACIAL PREJUDICED..DRUG ADDICTION..And worst of all..total indifference by those with political clout. I am a child of that era..I saw first hand the violence..the heartbreak..the mothers crying for their sons..the educator trying to get through to an oversized classroom,hoping at least half "got it"..or the teacher who didnt give a damn..passing the most incompetent among us. I seen the very worst humanity had to offer in our police officers..often harmfull than helpful..mouths full of hate for the very people they were suppose to "serve and protect".. Even me..when separated from a camping group as a child..look for a POLICE OFFICER for help "as instructed"..was met with the most heartwrenching experiance in the never forgotten response of "Get the fuck outta here,little nigger..!" yes..we have more than a idea..but when damn near EVERYTHING is oh so wrong..what do you do? do you give into your despare..and selfdestruct slowly..or do you face it square on..and fight? My parents wre stronger than me..and they knew that "weakness" they saw would be my end if they didnt do something..and quick. You see ..we are all passionate about something..my passion was drawing..so they sent me to art school. no time for trouble..no time to let me get INTO trouble..and though I hated them for it at the time..i love them for it today. Today..I carry a SPIRITUAL hole in my heart..caused by VIOLENCE..BUT I've learned to deal with it...like so many others who have been victims or friends of victims..and move on with the grace of God. We share a hobby..but we are all connected by more..our humanity our gracousness..our love for our villiage..and each other. |
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| (1141944) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:12:30 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:58:18 2012. Amen and THANKS for that! This is why I like you. :) |
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| (1141945) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 22:18:27 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:12:30 2012. your welcome..a little truth can go along way. |
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| (1141946) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:22:36 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 22:18:27 2012. And not letting the sh*t get to you helps even more. :) |
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| (1141947) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 22:23:53 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:22:36 2012. live and let live.. |
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| (1141953) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:44:31 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 22:23:53 2012. And joke 'em if they can't take a .... :) |
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| (1141954) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by VictorM on Sun Feb 26 22:50:20 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 21:24:12 2012. The Pitkin el was torn down in 1958, 2 years after it was abandoned. You may have been looking at the Livonia el at Pennsylvania Av in 1960. |
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| (1141957) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? 25 YEARS AGO |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sun Feb 26 23:06:57 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Feb 24 13:20:36 2012. Prove it's "ruperts rag".>>>Smells like bad MSM transit reporting<<< |
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| (1141958) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Mon Feb 27 00:03:38 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:12:30 2012. Ditto! |
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| (1141959) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Mon Feb 27 00:04:24 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 26 22:44:31 2012. "That's how it works" :) |
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| (1141960) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Feb 27 00:15:41 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by EastSideRider on Mon Feb 27 00:04:24 2012. It do indeed! :) |
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| (1141964) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Feb 27 03:36:33 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 17:14:08 2012. Actually, I saw an photo exhibit once at the Transit Museum where it showed people protesting the closing of the Myrtle Avenue el. It looked to be relatively few though (like a dozen), so the news reporters probably skipped over them. |
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| (1141966) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by trains61 on Mon Feb 27 04:20:22 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:58:18 2012. Thanks Edwards. Thank you too Elkeeper. Just wanted to make the point, that wasn`t entirely bad.My video card is taking a crap so it`s sought of difficult to see, respond and type. I may be away for a while until I get the problem solved. |
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| (1141972) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:38:16 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 15:22:05 2012. Oh, I "get" what the powers the be (were)" were thinking. But now we know that a transit facility is what helps bring a neighborhood BACK. The Bronx ans Central Brooklyn would, in my opinion, be better off today with those lines intact. |
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| (1141973) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:42:18 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by trains61 on Sun Feb 26 16:24:07 2012. In my studious attempts to avoid charged issues, I''l pooint out that I have a VHS of the #8 train in its last days (already painted in the MTA scheme), with lots of oridinary, hard-working in appearance (ie: in terms of dress and demeanor, and NOT in demographic terms) using it. Pushing those folks onto the lousdy BX55 couldn't have been helpful to them.So yeah, in the final analysis, whoever lives in the particualr neighborhodd needs transit, and the place is better for its existence. |
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| (1141974) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:48:19 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 21:57:15 2012. if you could share some photos and specific information about the Fulton demolition, that would be great... |
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| (1141976) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:51:36 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:58:18 2012. That must have been very hard. Glad you came through it. Shows how important family is. |
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| (1141978) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:57:31 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Feb 26 13:11:05 2012. I guess this is why some Ridgewood house addresses are still in Brooklyn style...like on Gates Avenue, etc... |
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| (1141982) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 08:12:13 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 20:59:00 2012. Of course. People "moved up" from Williamsburg to Bushwick. They "moved up" from Bushwick to Ridgewood. They "moved up" from Ridgewood to Glendale. And so forth. It's not "snobbery", it's the way it was. And that wasn't different in the 70's and 80's, and even 90's.I owned a building in Ridgewood in the 90's, and many of the tenants I would get were people "moving up" from Bushwick. Even then yet. It may have softened a little now as Bushwick isn't really all that bad anymore, even if Ridgewood still is nicer. The difference though now is that people aren't necessarily "moving up" anymore, now people are moving out of Bushwick and Greenpoint into Ridgewood because they are being priced out of Greenpoint, etc. Lots of Polish from Greenpoint moving into Ridgewood right now because Greenpoint got so expensive, so it kind of throws a wrench in the traditional movement. |
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| (1141984) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 08:17:30 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by MainR3664 on Mon Feb 27 07:57:31 2012. Yes, actually all the streets on the one side of Forest Ave are in the 10-XX Brooklyn sequence. You cross Forest Ave, and they move to the QUeens system 60-XX. This is completely because the mail in Ridgewood came out of the Brooklyn post office and where this discrepancy comes from. There's only one or two exceptions, like Catalpa Ave, which doesn't run in to the Bushwick street grid.Furthermore, it's also why all those Ridgewood streets kept their old street names when the rest of Queens lost them to the numbering system. In this case every street from the LIRR Montauk Branch to the M train kept their names, as well as the streets on one side of Forest Ave. Oddly, the only part of Ridgewood to lose it's street names to numbers are on the other side of the M train, but northeast of Forest Ave. (Again, Catalpa Ave being an exception). It's very odd. |
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| (1141989) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Feb 27 08:48:41 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by tunnelrat on Sun Feb 26 21:10:42 2012. I wonder how many active/retired cops are members of this board? Tunnelrat, you retired at the right time. You wouldn't even recognize Ray Kelly's abortion of a de-balled Police Department these days. |
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| (1141997) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 10:19:35 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:13:47 2012. Of course! I was referring to the 70's, and the mindset back then. |
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| (1141998) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 10:24:43 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Edwards! on Sun Feb 26 21:20:06 2012. Well in that case, both Bushwick and Bed-Stuy were in trouble. The thing with Ridgewood which made it different was that even though they were in Queens, since that had that crazy zip code quirk, where their mail was provided out of the Brooklyn post office, even though in Queens, was that they were beginning to be redlined like Bushwick was, as well as insurance rates went through the roof because they had a Brooklyn zip code, even though they were actually in Queens. You couldn't explain to some Insurance company or bank the weird quirk that they weren't in Brooklyn and dying like Bushwick was in the 1970's and 80's, yet shared a zip code with them.That's why the pull was so extreme to disassociate with Bushwick and the Brooklyn side of the border. The Queens side did not have the same problem the Brooklyn one had in the 70's, yet they were being charged like they were. There was none of the arson, mass abandonment, and destruction on the Queens side of the border. NONE of it, yet they were being charged like there was. I can't blame Ridgewood for wanting to disassociate with the Brooklyn side of the border back then, they had to do what they had to do. Thankfully that line is blurring again now, but back then the difference was extreme. |
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| (1142009) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 27 11:41:12 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 15:22:05 2012. There was some idea that removing the el structure would magically improve the neighborhoods, the idea that sunlight is the best disinfectant. That didn't pan out. Jamaica was a prime example. |
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| (1142010) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 27 11:43:31 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Feb 26 17:14:08 2012. There was considerable protests against closing both 3rd Ave and Myrtle. The MTA would not be swayed. |
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| (1142011) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 11:43:44 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 08:17:30 2012. Here's an illustration of the "Ridgewood Quirk". The Purple line is the current Brooklyn-Queens Border in the new (well many decades old) zig zag border, which is a much cleaner border than the original diagonal one which cut through blocks and homes. The Green line is the original Brooklyn-Queens border that cut diagnally down blocks and through homes (border approximate, see historic map at bottom for actual, which shows north on the left). The Orange Line is the Ridgewood-Glendale border is the NY Connecting RR (moved over because I didn't want to double over the other lines, but the railroad tracks are that border). The Blue line is the quirky remnant of the Brooklyn post office that used to serve the area (even though in queens. The blue border is Forest Ave on the left, the LIRR Montauk Branch on the top, the Ridgewood-Glendale border (NY Connecting RR) tracks on the right, and Myrtle Ave on the bottom. This is the area that jumps the address numbers from the Brooklyn 1X-XX sequence to the Queens 60-XX sequence of address numbers. The jump is noticable as you cross Forest Ave where you go from 19-XX on one side of Forest to 60-XX on the other as the numbers leave the Brooklyn sequence and enter the Queens sequence. I don't know why Forest is where this happens. Catalpa Ave is one of the exceptions to this, as it keeps the Queens numbers on both sides of Forest Ave. The Red line is the other Ridgewood quirk. In this area, it's the only part of Ridgewood, which lost it's original street names to the Queens numbering system. Why the rest of Ridgewood kept it's names is because Ridgewood was served out of the Brooklyn post office, even though in queens. It's unclear why this area within the red zone lost it's old original names to the QUeens system. This border is the M line on the top, the Ridgewood-Glendale border (railroad tracks) on the right, Myrtle AVe on the bottom, and Forest Ave on the left. In this section, the streets were changed to the Queens numbering system when that happened, while the rest of Ridgewood was spared. Again Catalpa Ave is an exception. Below, please see an original map showing the original Brooklyn Queens border, which would be the approximate green line on my map. Note that north is on the left. The area called "East Williamsburg" is what is known as Ridgewood today. 
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| (1142013) | |
Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated? |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Feb 27 11:48:42 2012, in response to Re: NY Post: L train almost eliminated?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Feb 27 11:43:44 2012. I thought Wyckoff was the border for it's entire length??? |
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