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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:16:48 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:41:12 2012. Additionally, I think it burned. It was probably safer to just tear it out. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:26:29 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:47:40 2012. All the Franklins to Coney (express or local) in my memory were 6 car B-types. 3-unit Triplexes covered the line when Brighton Locals ran to Franklin on Saturdays. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:31:23 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:49:58 2012. So could a lot of the R-types, and they did, especially during the period (1970s?) when so much equipment was BO, but we count them as separate types.One of the reasons all the BUs could MU was because of the 1904-1906 standardization. I mean, some of them had been steam coaches for different companies. |
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iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:34:26 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:52:13 2012. True, but AFAIK they just never made it up there. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:37:06 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Jan 11 21:58:11 2012. by then the Hippos ruled the roost.Should that be "ruled the water hole"? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:38:18 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by R30A on Wed Jan 11 21:11:34 2012. It did? Never heard that. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 07:00:35 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:56:24 2012. I didn't know they had museum R9s as early as 1969. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 07:21:37 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 03:06:06 2012. It probably fell apart, and they didn't replace it, nor use that other platform. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 07:23:44 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 22:58:40 2012. In the days when this was a thru station, was the platform on the right an island platform? It sure looks like it may have been? Why does it have a canopy that looks like it's an island platform, while the one on the left looks like typical wall platform canopy. Also, how was the set up, wasn't there also a station on the Fulton St line itself? How did that connect to this one? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 07:58:18 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 07:23:44 2012. No, it was always a side platform station. There was a stairway down to the street (I think two at one time) on the westbound platform.There was a station on the Fulton Line. You got to/from the Fulton Street line westbound platform via an overhead bridge. In the days when it was a busy transfer station the doors opened on one side for exiting passengers, then opened on the other for entering passengers. The passenger flow determined which side was entrance and which side was exit. In its last years, westbound platform was always exit and eastbound entrance. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Jan 12 09:00:38 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 13:35:49 2012. I have ridden everything you listed above including R44's & R10's in regular service. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 09:46:35 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:41:12 2012. There were other wooden platforms around, either at the same time or in the then-recent past. Presumably they were maintained, with planks replaced when they rotted. Did the TA forget how to do that, or could they just not be bothered? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 10:30:07 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 09:46:35 2012. They simply didn't want to maintain the line... |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 11:10:14 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 09:46:35 2012. They were probably hoping to abandon the line completely. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 12:59:33 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 11:10:14 2012. No "probably" about it. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 13:01:11 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 23:12:12 2012. Definitely. I wasted it, entirely. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 13:04:03 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 03:44:14 2012. The remanants of the Upper level of Broadway/Myrtle had rails until at least the mid 1990s, and to this day, there are vesitges of the signals, and even a train-length marker sign (correct terminology?) on the Jay-Street bound trackway. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 13:06:09 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 15:00:09 2012. That would have been a good rebuild. Luckily, not only did the neighbors want the line, but they use it heavily enough, that in this more enlightened era, the line has a good constituency. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:16:41 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 07:58:18 2012.  I'm sure that the station was busy in the summer, especially when the Dodgers were playing home games. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:17:46 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Jan 12 11:10:14 2012. And thank goodness they didn't, now if there were only some way to get the line to Lafayette Avenue... |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:18:11 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 03:06:06 2012. Wooden platforms were fire hazards and the exit on the old Park Row bound platform was closed. That, combined with declining usage made it expendable. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 13:19:47 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 17:12:25 2012. Sounds like something that belongs in OT Chat...no? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:20:07 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Dyre Dan on Thu Jan 12 09:46:35 2012. They wanted to abandon it, so no concrete platforms. Look at the Culver line. The IND segment got concrete platforms in the 50's, the shuttle portion kept it's rotting wooden platforms all the way to the bitter end. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:21:24 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 14:41:19 2012. Whoa, where the heck was that first station, takes the term "walking on eggshells" to a whole new level. The 2nd photo doesn't shock me as much though, the Sea Beach and Dyre still look somewhat like that. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:23:25 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Mr. D - Type on Thu Jan 12 09:00:38 2012. I'm sure the early 80's saw everything that could move used everywhere that needed a train. By 1985/6, car assignments became more strict. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:23:55 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Elkeeper on Wed Jan 11 19:48:37 2012. It's still used mostly by black people, and there's nothing wrong with that in itself. It does help connect some of the worst neighborhoods in Brooklyn with each other though I'll give you that. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:25:27 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:23:55 2012. It's a lot safer now, both the neighborhood and the enclosed nature of the connection. The rickety, run down nature of the connection in the 80's probably gave a person going through it an enhanced sense of danger and risk. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:26:19 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:20:07 2012. Does the 9th Avenue Lower Level station still have wooden platforms? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:27:08 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:38:18 2012. It was the only way we could fit on the line, since we had to displace an R68 consist to run on it. I believe we did 3 round trips. Coaxing people to actually get on it was fun. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:28:38 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Wed Jan 11 19:58:21 2012. I agree, Franklin Avenue seems to have room to become a 2-track, island platform station that would help allow 3 trains to smoothly operate on the line at once. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:32:43 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jan 11 14:32:02 2012. Wow, the transformation that happened between then and now is almost unbelievable. I'd imagine waiting at that for 20 minutes at night must have been pretty brutal and it's a good thing residents looked beyond the state of the line then and lobbied to turn it into the line it is today. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:33:14 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 07:00:35 2012. The museum R1/9's ran in service on some lines in the early 70's. Not sure why, whether it was a necessity or if they were just showing off what the cars looked like when new:    What happened to 1440? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:34:38 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Wed Jan 11 22:53:27 2012. Lol |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:34:58 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:26:19 2012. I don't think it ever did, it's technically a subway station. Before 1931 it held the odd distinction of being the only station where you walked DOWN a flight of stairs to transfer from a subway to an elevated line. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:35:05 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jan 11 21:17:59 2012. I wonder if there's R34 on Brentwood. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:39:06 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 15:00:09 2012. Good post, and I agree, not to mention it would make a Lafayette Avenue extension much easier. :-) |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:43:35 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:34:58 2012. My mistake I thought you were talking about the whole line which BTW seems like the only abandoned line that no one really cares about nowadays unlike the 3rd Avenue line. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 13:47:55 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:34:58 2012. You forgot Gun Hill Road. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 13:54:45 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by MainR3664 on Thu Jan 12 13:04:03 2012. I remember that well. In my younger days I had ridden the 3 Av El all the way from the Bronx to downtown and back all the way from So/Fy to Gun Hill. After the el was cut back to 149 St I Would often look south towards the bumping blocks and remember where I had once ridden trains. In 1984 when I was a trainmaster I had the occasion to visit Bway/Myrtle upper and stood on the platform facing downtown Bkln and there were still signs up indicating "To Bridge Jay Sts." I had a slightly different feeling that time however since not only did I ride trains there, I OPERATED trains there when I was a M/M in 1969. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 14:00:21 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:39:06 2012. If the Fulton El were rebuilt all the way to downtown like it was supposed to be, part of the rebuild was an improved junction between the Fulton El and the Brighton (Franklin) LIne. It would be nice if a similar connection could be made between the Fkln Line and the Fulton St subway but with the LIRR being so close to the surface at that point I don't see how that would be possible since the Fkln Line would have to begin its descent to subway level somewhere around where the old Dean St station was since there is really no place to put a portal along Fulton St. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by William A. Padron on Thu Jan 12 14:07:52 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:33:14 2012. R-7 #1440, along with R-4 #800, is at the Seashore Trolley Museum in Maine. To whit...R-7 #1440, Seashore Trolley Museum, 9/4/2004 [Photo by Richard Panse]. -William A. Padron ["a.c.f."] |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 14:11:01 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 06:26:29 2012. I seem to recall that too, but the movies of the specials always showed them as 4 car trains with a white bullseye affixed to front pantograph gates of the trains. When I first rode the Franklin in 1959, The tail switch N/O PPk was not yet in service and Franklin shuttles had to turn on the exp tracks S/O PPk station which is why rush hour Fkln service ran through to Stl so as not to interfere with Brighton expresses. Weekend Fkln service also ran through to Stl except on late PMs and midnights. According to an old time former BMT ATD I know, during hours of Sunny Summer Sunday Special operation, the regular Fkln crews operated pretty much in place but as Brighton expresses between Fkln and Stl. At Stl they would be relieved by extra crews who would operate the trains over the Sea Beach middle, 4 Av exp and H tracks of the Manny B into Chambers St and back where they would be relieved by regular Fkln crews for the trip up the Brighton Exp to Fkln. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 14:12:02 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by William A. Padron on Thu Jan 12 14:07:52 2012. I wish I could have operated that one. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by zac on Thu Jan 12 14:15:23 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Wed Jan 11 15:00:09 2012. I remember back in 1964 there was a water main break and all trains were going to Franklin.And over the next 2 months or so, there is no service between Prospect Park and 57th on weekends. It would be nice if they could run the train to Franklin so you could directly transfer to the 2/3/4/5 or A/C. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 14:17:27 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:27:08 2012. I heard that one Sunday afternoon when it was operating on a fan trip on the A Line, there was a hole in regular A service and it was put into regular A service to 207 St. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 14:30:09 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Jan 12 13:16:41 2012. It was the entry station for Ebbets Field and Coney Island for most of the people who rode the IND, until the D went down the Culver and Ebbets closed. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 14:33:54 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 13:28:38 2012. Yes, that in itself would improve capacity, because a second train could enter Franklin Avenue while a train was already there.In fact, it occurs to me that if they could make Franklin a 600' island platform station, it would work for diversions, running non-stop from Prospect Park. Now if only the City hadn't spitefully made Franklin on the A/C a local station. |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 14:40:28 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 14:00:21 2012. Good point, but I think it would've been more beneficial for the line and Brooklyn if it were connected to the Crosstown Line anyway. This probably wouldn't happen even in that scenario, but how cool would it be if a true Crosstown line operated between Court Square and Coney Island via the Franklin? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 14:41:32 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by SLRT on Thu Jan 12 14:33:54 2012. Spitefully? Sounds interesting, I wonder if that is the same reason Yankee Stadium and Jackson Heights have similar situations? |
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Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question |
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Posted by randyo on Thu Jan 12 15:07:35 2012, in response to Re: Franklin Avenue Shuttle Rolling Stock Question, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jan 12 14:41:32 2012. Jackson Heights? That's an express station if you're talking about 74/Roosevelt. |
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