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Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 6 14:53:30 2011 I think the added costs and potential construction delays will pay off in the long run. You only get one chance to decide where a station like this is going to go, better to get it right than not.Article at wtop.com is here |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 22:46:12 2011, in response to Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 6 14:53:30 2011. I think the added costs and potential construction delays will pay off in the long run. You only get one chance to decide where a station like this is going to go, better to get it right than not.Seem you beat me to the punch, I will repeat what I wrote there. "What I think is sad about this decision is the gateway station to the national capital that first time visitors will see is a 600' long version of the of the underground portion of the Fort Totten station instead of the 600' long coffered arch vault that WMATA is famous for." John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 22:54:22 2011, in response to Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Wed Apr 6 14:53:30 2011. How is this "getting it right" versus building above ground? |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 22:55:45 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 22:46:12 2011. Wonder why that would be sad. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:02:15 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 22:54:22 2011. How is this "getting it right" versus building above ground?Distance between main terminal and station options.  John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:12:57 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 22:55:45 2011. Wonder why that would be sad.Have you ever physically been in that portion of the station? I happen to think that portion of that station is a cheap crappy architectural bastardization of the single island platform in an unobstructed coffered arch vault. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 23:50:03 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:12:57 2011. More like unique. The high ceilings are overdoing things. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 23:51:13 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:02:15 2011. That's not necessarily written in stone though. Looks like it's deliberately composed to induce preference for the below-ground option. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by SchuminWeb on Thu Apr 7 01:06:18 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:12:57 2011. Agreed, Fort Totten lower level doesn't really work. That mini-arch thing works well at Forest Glen and Wheaton because in each tube you have all the things that Metro is known for, like clear sight lines and such, just in miniature. But at Fort Totten, they joined two tubes together and it certainly looks funny, like someone took a full-size station and put a fedora dent in it. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by SchuminWeb on Thu Apr 7 01:14:24 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:02:15 2011. I made a comment on the Twitter when challenged about why the 600-foot difference is important. My comment was that when you're carrying all sorts of luggage, 600 feet will feel like a mile. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Thu Apr 7 01:28:21 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by SchuminWeb on Thu Apr 7 01:14:24 2011. Not even mentioning that a properly climate controlled subway station can be far more pleasant waiting for a train than fresh smog, DC's famous humidity or a downpour. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Apr 7 08:07:18 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 23:50:03 2011. More like unique. The high ceilings are overdoing things.So is Annacostia, but it was built that way for a reason and it still retains the open unobstructed design. All that concrete steel use in those columns down the center line of the platform could have been used to built a unobstructed arched vault. Contrary to popular belief an arched vault of the same width and volume of a box vault uses less concrete and steel to build. Fort Totton lower level was an either of engineering problem, mine out more soil to create unobstructed arched vault or mine out less soil and put columns down the center line of the platform. The mine out less soil solution was chosen. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Apr 7 08:19:32 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 23:51:13 2011. That's not necessarily written in stone though. Looks like it's deliberately composed to induce preference for the below-ground option.You can spin it any way you like, the cross section does'nt lie. It clearly show the difference between the distance of main terminal and the two location options. I will also note that the alignment and location of the station in the LPA (Locally Preferred Alternative) agreed upon by the WMATA board of Directors that was brought forward from the FEIS (Final Environmental Impact Statement) was closer to the main terminal then the option MWAA approved. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Apr 7 11:05:51 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 6 23:51:13 2011. It's the Germans' fault! :) |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 7 12:43:07 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Apr 7 08:19:32 2011. You can spin it any way you like, the cross section doesn't lieOf course it does. Who is to say that an above-ground station can't be built over the location where they want to put the below-ground one? Do you also believe that Bugs Bunny is real, because someone drew him on paper or celluloid film . . . ? I will also note that the alignment and location of the station in the LPA (Locally Preferred Alternative) agreed upon by the WMATA board of Directors that was brought forward from the FEIS (Final Environmental Impact Statement) was closer to the main terminal then the option MWAA approved I see. Government at work; ain't it grand. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Thu Apr 7 13:59:04 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by SchuminWeb on Thu Apr 7 01:14:24 2011. That's actually mentioned in the article linked. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Thu Apr 7 21:55:20 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 7 12:43:07 2011. Of course it does. Who is to say that an above-ground station can't be built over the location where they want to put the below-ground one?That option was rejected outright along with the option that would have placed the station on the arrival roadway because it would be not be compatible to the folks that approve alteration to historically preserved structures. The Eero Saarinen designed main terminal building at Dulles Airport is a historic landmark. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Apr 7 23:41:31 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:02:15 2011. Hints that the station will be laid out like Wheaton/Forest Glen.-w- |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Apr 8 07:52:33 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Wayne-MrSlantR40 on Thu Apr 7 23:41:31 2011. Hints that the station will be laid out like Wheaton/Forest Glen.Other drawings I have seen indicate that there will be two lines of columns on either side of the area where the escalators and elevators land at the platform level. You are likely correct that at least half of the length of the station will be laid out like Wheaton / Forest Glen. I still think it is a poor design considering the importance of the station. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Apr 8 10:50:22 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Apr 8 07:52:33 2011. If WMAA build the station with the track centers in the neighborhood 40' as originally planed, the station will likely be closer to what Fort Tottn lower level looks like, the difference is, there will be two rows columns along the length of the station instead of one.John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 8 12:06:31 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Fri Apr 8 07:52:33 2011. The station should be designed with wider than normal escalators, and an additional set of elevators. The platform should be wide enough for four-abreast walking at a minimum when passing stairs and other station appliances. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Apr 8 12:19:56 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Wed Apr 6 23:02:15 2011. Agreed, distance is important at a station where most people will literally be lugging luggage. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Fri Apr 8 22:57:32 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Fri Apr 8 12:06:31 2011. The station should be designed with wider than normal escalators, and an additional set of elevators. The platform should be wide enough for four-abreast walking at a minimum when passing stairs and other station appliances.The plan for the station in the FEIS shows 2 escalators of the width that is the standard to all WMATA stations, 48" wide stair treads. Between those escalators is a flight of stairs that have a foot print that is equal to the combined foot print of both escalators 5' 8 1/4" X 2. All of the station on the new line will have a minimum of 2 elevators between the various levels. The 2 elevator minimum became the new standard on WMATA when the G Route Blue line was extended to Largo. The minimum width of a platform in a twin platform station is 13'. The width of the platforms in the Forest Glen and Wheaton stations is 13' 7". The width of the island platforms in 10 of the 11 station on the new line is 30' 1/2". The Dulles Airport station, the 11th, is shown as being 40' wide in the FEIS. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 8 23:08:52 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Sand Box John on Thu Apr 7 21:55:20 2011. The Eero Saarinen designed main terminal building at Dulles Airport is a historic landmarkIt's only 49 years old. Shouldn't qualify. Funny how they race to make old airport terminals "historic landmarks" thus putting them in the way of upgrading, but historic railway stations get smashed. Plenty of alterations are performed to historic preserved structures anyhow. Ever saw what they did to the Broad Street Station (former DL&W) in Newark, New Jersey over the past few years? What's going on with the Dulles terminal is just due to some politician's opinion. |
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| (1053613) | |
Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Apr 9 10:59:54 2011, in response to Re: Metro Station at Dulles Airport to be Built Underground, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Apr 8 23:08:52 2011. It's only 49 years old. Shouldn't qualify. Funny how they race to make old airport terminals "historic landmarks" thus putting them in the way of upgrading, but historic railway stations get smashed.Determining the historic landmark status of a structure is very subjective at best. The difference between your example, railway stations and airport terminals is, virtually all airport terminals are government property from the day they were planed, railway stations were planed and built by private enterprises and many them were demolished because they became of no value to the enterprises that owned them. Plenty of alterations are performed to historic preserved structures anyhow. Ever saw what they did to the Broad Street Station (former DL&W) in Newark, New Jersey over the past few years? What's going on with the Dulles terminal is just due to some politician's opinion. You haven't been following this matter very closely. The original plan was to build the station in subway to avoid any alteration to the over appearance of the main terminal from the start. MWAA, Dulles Transit Partners and its predecessors new this was an issue going in. Building an elevated station in front of the main terminal would be akin to building a congressional office building for the leadership on the west lawn of the Capital. This far more then just some politician's opinion, This is the position of the folks that decide historic landmark status at both state and federal level. The state and local politicians want the cheaper surface station adjacent to the garage. A station on surface at the same location as the subway option would be cheaper then the station in subway but it would not be as cheap station adjacent to the garage. If I had it my way the station would have been built on the arrival roadway. The arrival roadway is the level below the roadway in front of the main terminal. The overall appearance of the station on that level would have had little effect to the overall appearance main terminal, after all the height of a metrorail train above the station platform is less then 2/3 the height of a tour bus. A low profile canopy above the platform would top out at the height of that tour bus. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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