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Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011 Two of the photos showing 59th ST JCT in the All Day Tour thread gave me the idea that a lot of the history of Chicago's first "L" is contained in them. The first "L", two tracked, was nicknamed the Alley L, from Congress ST south to 39th ST NEXT TO the alley along State ST. I emphasize "next to".....only from 12th ST north to Congress was the "L" actually over the alley. The line opened in 1892 and within a year five miles of extension was thrown up allowing the "L" to reach the Worlds Fair in Jackson Park. Photo one at 59th ST shows that the alleys in Chicago are just as straight as the streets and that original extension is on the left. Latice uprights, centered under the tracks supported the solid steel girders. You can only do this type of erection on private property and Chicago's first "L" took advantage of our gridded streets with an alley in between. The "L" company had only to buy the rear 25 ft to put together the needed right of way. Ten years later when the Englewood branch starts construction, upright solid steel H columns are the new technology and the "L" trestle uses tower bents with "X" sections every third bent. Examine the Englewood turning off to the right in Photo one. Look more carefully and you can see the third rail is on the outside at the switch. But the third rail doesn't start at the switch points because electrically going off onto the branch is a section break. Because the alley grid was perpendicular to the Englewood right of way, the "L" had to purchase entire city lots, all in a line, across the street from each other to assemble a right of way. Lining up lots when lot sizes vary from 20 to 30 feet gives slight deviations to seemingly straight stretches of tangent tracks. What might be expected to be straight has little twists in it.  Turning the camera around we see the approach to 59th ST JCT. The outside third rail is providing 600 v DC through a crossover switch. All of the upright colums were reworked during the Green line rehab a decade ago. The steel uprights used to go all the way down to concrete footings just inches above ground level. In the rehab the columns were cut,, new footings were installed two feet high and a new splice piece matched up both ends. No measuring was really needed.  The "L" extension from 40th ST to 63rd ST follows the alley all the way. Evidently the property owners wanted too much money south of 49th ST so the "L" builders crossed their structure from one side to the other.  At 63rd ST the tracks turned east to go straight to Jackson Park. The street was utilized with permission from the adjoining property owners, rare in Chicago. In Chicago over the street running is confined to the downtown area, the only place where bribing property owners from permission was cheaper than buying expensive land. The Lake Street "L" was an exception. David Harrison |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 8 00:24:19 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Weird. I wonder why it was necessary to get permission from adjacent property owners to build over a public street? That was not the case in NY. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video) |
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Posted by breakout6 on Tue Mar 8 00:53:00 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. The linked video starts with a photo of the construction of the 35th Street station on that line in the 1890s - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kro5CqP_ajI |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 8 04:42:41 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Interesting stuff, David - thanks for posting. Must get to Chicago before I'm too old to enjoy the L! |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by arnine on Tue Mar 8 07:38:00 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Nice again :) Thank you :) |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 8 08:07:58 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. I wonder if the streetcar tracks are still there under the asphalt on 63rd. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:28:49 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 8 00:24:19 2011. Illinois has a law that states the necessity to get 51 percent of the property owners approval. Usually, the approval is given after a bribe is paid. In the outlying areas it was cheaper to buy land rather than pay the bribes. The approval was in mile lengths.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:35:45 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video), posted by breakout6 on Tue Mar 8 00:53:00 2011. Good find. Thanks. "Connections" is the official cable broadcast of the CTA. There library is closed to the public but does have some gems.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:37:37 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by Fytton on Tue Mar 8 04:42:41 2011. Rest assured on one front...there's no plan whatsoever to replace the Loop "L" on the drawing boards, LOL. And no plan to cover our third rail either.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:38:40 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by arnine on Tue Mar 8 07:38:00 2011. You are quite welcome.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:46:31 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Tue Mar 8 08:07:58 2011. Chicago still has streetcar tracks and wooden ties under miles of streets. I remember seeing them dug up on 63rd ST at the west edge of the Dan Ryan expressway about ten years ago. That's close...about five blocks east. Then too there were the interurban tracks in west 63rd Place, 1/2 block south of 63rd. This was an off street terminal. The east-west right of way of the Englewood "L" aligned up to this half street. Then the tracks crossed Halsted ST and veered to the north to line up with the east-west alley, all the way to Loomis BLVD end of the line.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 8 11:11:29 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Your pictures and accompanying text are always outstanding. I suspect Fred G, who comes across with a "devil may care laissez faire" attitude as if photography is not a contact sport, stays awake at night tossing and turning at the thought that you are threatening his preeminence as the leading transit photographer this side of the Mississippi. You are a clear and present danger per se to usurp which means assume his heretofore unassailable position. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by insidetransitcom on Tue Mar 8 11:25:19 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. i am always worried when i ride the chicago el that the train is going to fall off - look how close it rides to the edge with no protection on the side on those photos!! no way i could ride that everyday :) |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 11:31:08 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 8 11:11:29 2011. Fred G and I will always be the best of friends...there's never any competition. Thanks to you for your kind words. I really love telling the story behind the picture and really appreciate it when those stories are received.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 8 11:35:45 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 11:31:08 2011. You are welcome. As for Fred G... dude's alright. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 11:47:02 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by insidetransitcom on Tue Mar 8 11:25:19 2011. You know when you are a motorman, the first thing you realize is in the cab of the front car you can look down out the front window....look down right to the alley. Our "L" is no more prone to falling off than any other system. It's the weight and the low center of gravity that keeps any transit train on the tracks, plus the guard rails and guard timbers. But too fast on a curve and any car is coming off. A lot of people think the walkways on the outside of the eastern Els are going to keep a derailed train on the structure, but I think that is purely psychological. Some parts of the Philadelphia El do seem protected by the outside girder structure.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Mar 8 11:55:27 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by insidetransitcom on Tue Mar 8 11:25:19 2011. I used to feel that way as a kid...I'm planning a trip to Chicago over the summer with my kid, if I can scrape the money together and find an inexpensive transit-connected hotel. Last trip I stayed out by O'Hare, and it was a pain going back and forth to the Airport on the hotel shuttle to get anywhere. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 12:01:23 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Mar 8 11:55:27 2011. Someone coming to the IRM Snowflake Special has mentioned a Best Western in downtown Evanston, IL. I'd check their website and the the typical hotel sites for rates. The address is only two blocks from the Purple line.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Joe Saitta on Tue Mar 8 12:32:54 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 12:01:23 2011. That hotel was suggested to me by a fellow NYC railfan who is also attending the IRM Snowflake. I'll be making reservations there shortly and will post any information which may be of value to others. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Mar 8 13:05:28 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Amtrk wants 800 bucks for a RT from NYP on the Lake Shore with a viewliner roomette leaving Friday Aft and returing Sun eve. I will never, ever go coach on an overnight since I had a distgusting slob with the worst BO I ever smelled in my life sit next to me. I had to spend the entire night in the lounge car. I might drive being snow season is about over, it's about a 12 hour trip for me. This is a great trip they have planned. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Mar 8 13:12:52 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 12:01:23 2011. The Comfort Inn on Skokie Blvd is a nice place. It's about 4-5 block walk to the Dempster Yellow line station but I'm not sure if the Yellow runs on Sunday:http://www.expedia.com/Chicago-Hotels-Comfort-Inn-Skokie.h9424.Hotel-Information |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 13:33:30 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Mar 8 13:12:52 2011. Yellow runs seven days a week but now that we're in construction season, the line has been busstituted a couple of times on weekends due to construction of a new station at Oakley.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Mar 8 13:54:14 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 11:47:02 2011. When I first started riding the BMT Eastern in 1956, one of the first things was the lack of outside catwalks on the el structures. I have heard that the Southern Division el structures were that way originally also but I always remember the West End and Culver structures having them. Eventually, all the BMT el structures received catwalks but when I was a M/M in 1969, the portion of the BMT Fulton St el which had been taken over by the IND back in 1956 was still without catwalks which have since been installed. A friend of mine who was a trainmaster thought that was the reason the the BMT had its stop arms and trip cocks on the of side of the cars rather than the cab side as was the case on the IRT. In the event of a signal malfunction, there would have been no way for the M/M to manually drive the sop arm down on the cab side if there were no catwalks to stand on. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Mar 8 13:56:22 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 13:33:30 2011. Might there be the eventual possibility of the Skokie being upgraded and having Red Line service extended to Dempster instead of terminating at Howard? |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Randyo on Tue Mar 8 14:02:47 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Mar 8 13:05:28 2011. When I went to Chicago in 1989, I took a sleeper berth (I don't know if that is what you refer to as a "roomette") and it was such a hassle to set it up and break it down especially at night if i needed to use the toilet that I now travel coach. I find that reclining the seat in coach I can sleep just as well. Even when I went to New Orleans a few years ago, I went coach and experienced no problems and saved a lot of money as well. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 14:08:49 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by Randyo on Tue Mar 8 13:56:22 2011. I haven't heard of any such proposition. First that would be a gross imbalance of service level, train frequency. The planned extention to Old Orchrd is only a single track because of the projected traffic level. Plus you wouldn't want eight car trains running at full speed across the grade crossings like the two car trains do today. Before 1949 realignment, Jackson Park subway expresses did go into Evanston. That's why that route always had trolley equipped cars.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 14:10:17 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 14:08:49 2011. extension |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Mar 8 14:21:26 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by seabeachexpress on Tue Mar 8 13:12:52 2011. 4-5 blocks may be too long a walk with a tired six-year-old. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 8 16:22:56 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. Those are great photos. Too bad we tore down our signature els decades ago. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by italianstallion on Tue Mar 8 16:43:31 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:28:49 2011. Thanks. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video) |
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Posted by railfanc on Wed Mar 9 00:08:04 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:35:45 2011. Great pictures - old and new.Is there any place to see more old photos or videos? |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 01:28:15 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (video), posted by railfanc on Wed Mar 9 00:08:04 2011. Thanks. Do a search on youTube under my other name msibnsf.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 01:29:56 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 8 16:22:56 2011. Thanks. We did some political tearing down too....east 63rd st.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 9 07:56:48 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Tue Mar 8 10:46:31 2011. Most of the railroad underpasses still had fully exposed streetcar tracks for years. I remember seeing this on Kedzie Ave. just north of the Stevenson Expressway as well as Pulaski Rd. further north. IIRC even Milwaukee Ave. (or was it Lincoln?) as it passed beneath the Red Line had exposed streetcar tracks. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Mar 9 08:23:44 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by Hank Eisenstein on Tue Mar 8 11:55:27 2011. I'm planning a trip to Chicago over the summer with my kid, if I can scrape the money together and find an inexpensive transit-connected hotel. Last trip I stayed out by O'Hare, and it was a pain going back and forth to the Airport on the hotel shuttle to get anywhere.The Days Inn at 644 W. Diversey runs about $100 a night. It's less than a half mile from the 'L', and there are buses to the 'L' and directly to the Loop outside the door. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 10:42:01 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 9 07:56:48 2011. The streetcar tracks were left exposed because the city wouldn't pave over them as that would decrease the truck clearance measurement. About ten years ago, the city let a number of contracts completely digging out and repaving beneath viaducts increasing the clearance.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 10:53:59 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by Mitch45 on Tue Mar 8 16:22:56 2011. Here are gthe videos of East 63rd ST I've posted on YouTube. First "Back In The Day" back in the 1970s.Then move forward to the late 80s, the Jackson Park branch is cut back to University AV. Finally we arrive at the mid 90s...the Green line is shut down for the rehab...but no rehab is happening east of Cottage Grove AV on east 63rd. Then.........one Saturday morning...... David Harrison(msibnsf) |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by arnine on Wed Mar 9 11:32:20 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 10:53:59 2011. Nice stuff :) Favorited :) |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 13:25:49 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by arnine on Wed Mar 9 11:32:20 2011. Thank you very much. I documented it for history.David |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Wed Mar 9 13:38:18 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 10:42:01 2011. I noticed that the last time I drove along Kedzie Ave. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by mike cruz on Wed Mar 9 16:01:51 2011, in response to Chicago's First "L" (PHOTOS), posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Mon Mar 7 23:34:53 2011. that last pic reminds me of crescent st & jamaica ave on the J. |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) |
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Posted by ChicagoPCCLCars on Wed Mar 9 16:31:18 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS), posted by mike cruz on Wed Mar 9 16:01:51 2011. The South Side "L" in 1892 had a city charter to turn east to tap the Worlds Fair in Jackson Park anywhere between 60th and 67th ST. In the end they chose to abandon a route on private land that would have to be paid for. East 63rd was mostly vacant and the property owners willingly gave permission to use the public street. East 63rd ST is a section street meaning its on the boundary of a square mile section of land. In Chicago, our streets are based upon these section and 1/2 section streets; all one mile and 1/2 mile apart. Where the school is on the right would later become an amusement park complete with a roller coaster called White City. At the stop light on the left was the Washington Park racetrack, a major thoroughbred facility that extended 1/2 mile down East 63rd. The cross bents are the original as are the uprights in the forefront. An open girder truss was used on East 63rd, but the pattern is unique to 63rd and was not duplicated downtown. The new footings came in the 1990s rehab. Entirely new uprights from the rehab are seen midway back to the station where the original uprights were again kept.David Harrison |
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Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Thu Mar 10 14:26:49 2011, in response to Re: Chicago's First ''L'' (PHOTOS) too close to edge, posted by Randyo on Tue Mar 8 13:54:14 2011. The Coney Island-bound Brighton EL between Brighton 2nd St and the Ocean Parkway station didn't have a catwalk until sometime in the late 70s or early 80s. Yet the rest of the structure did. Only that small segment didn't. Go figure.--mark |
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