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| Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design (1025427) | |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 3 16:04:03 2011, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 3 14:33:51 2011. Nope. They were letting the wires rot west of SEPTA operation, so they changed to diesel in Philly on trains bound for Harrisburg. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Jul 3 16:10:43 2011, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by chuchubob on Sun Jul 3 13:48:55 2011. That would be interesting if they did electrify that direction. Would VRE think of using electric motors for its Fredericksburg Line then? |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:04:58 2012, in response to Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Fri Jan 14 13:12:49 2011. Looks like Railcolor.net is showing a new look to the ACS-64. May as well put old versus new side by side (new look on right).  |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 09:30:12 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:04:58 2012. The HHP-8's can join the E60's as lemons in the history books.Yet the AEM-7's will go down in the books as worthy successors of the GG-1's. Just like it was said the F-40PH saved Amtrak on the diesel side, the same can be said of the AEM-7's on the electric side. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:38:42 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 09:30:12 2012. The F40PHs lasted only an average of 25 years. That's not exactly "saving" Amtrak. The AEM-7s had to be rebuilt into AEM-7ACs to allow them to haul as many as 14 cars solo. There wasn't enough work done on the E60 before delivery to Amtrak to allow them to run at high speeds; really has nothing to do with C-C (there are locos with that wheel arrangement that run at 125 mph and faster). |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 28 10:00:02 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:04:58 2012. It looks like a roach.First thing that popped up in my head, its the headlight design. Anyways the new look is doper, the components under the car body is much more detailed in the new rendering. There locomotives are gonna like sexy pulling into Newark Penn. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 10:18:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 28 10:00:02 2012. They remind me a bit of Ireland's first main line diesels, the old CIE 113 class (originally 1100 class); CIE body and frame, Metropolitan Vickers traction motors and Sulzer six-cylinder prime mover. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 11:34:40 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:04:58 2012. both are only artist renderings, anyone remember what art renderings of Acela looked like ?? right, nothing close to final product |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 12:13:35 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 11:34:40 2012. I seem to recall that it looked very much like the finished product. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Jul 28 12:42:27 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 09:30:12 2012. The E60's are a freight design and continue to perform well in that role. They didn't have mechanical issues, they had high speed handling issues and weighed a ton. There are also still 90 or so examples of the E60's baby cousin, the E42, running around Taiwan. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 12:52:30 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Jersey Mike on Sat Jul 28 12:42:27 2012. They didn't have mechanical issues, they had high speed handling issues and weighed a tonNo, the Toyota Echo weighs about a ton. The E60 weighs 193½ tons. The E60s' per-axle weight is 64,500 lbs, which is not all that bad (lighter than the F40PH at 65,000 lbs per axle). I suspect whatever high-speed handling problems they had could have been fixed if the time was put into it, but Amtrak wanted the units rushed into service, just like the SPD40Fs were. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Jsun21 on Sat Jul 28 13:20:05 2012, in response to Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Train Man Paul : Metro-North's Best Conductor FOR ALL 3 LINES!!! on Fri Jan 14 13:12:49 2011. Are (and why are) they looking to replace the HHP-8s? |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 28 13:23:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Jsun21 on Sat Jul 28 13:20:05 2012. The HHP8s are junk and less parts to maintain (Having only one electric locomotive) |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 13:25:38 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 09:38:42 2012. 25 years is damn good for a passenger diesel, plus look at the mileage they racked up!My statement that the F40PH saved Amtrak is based on this: before them the SDP40's were disasters as they had problems staying on the rail. The F40PH was not meant to be a long distance locomotive, but they performed so handsomely they were used successfully long distance. Amtrak had no choice but to use them long distance. After the first ones came in, some SDP40's were traded in and parts used to create some F40PH. That's how I remember it playing out from the early days of Amtrak. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 13:27:52 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sat Jul 28 10:00:02 2012. The HHP 8's look more like roaches than these. We'll get used to the look, Obviously it's done for aero-dynamics/wind resistance. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 13:30:31 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 13:25:38 2012. 25 years is damn good for a passenger dieselWhich standard are you using? Plenty of Geeps out there well into their 40s (and the F40PH shares a great deal of its design with the GP40). Most E-units got into their late 30s. Then again, Amtrak also junked their Geeps prematurely. before them the SDP40Fs were disasters as they had problems staying on the rail This I never really understood. After all, the SD40-2 stayed on the rails just fine. The steam-heat generator could not have been to blame all by itself. I also never heard about the other C-C diesel that Amtrak had (the P30CH) having such problems. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 14:20:11 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Jsun21 on Sat Jul 28 13:20:05 2012. even France and Belgium are replacing the Sybic locomotives the HHP-8 is based on. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 14:22:00 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 13:30:31 2012. P-A-S-S-E-N-G-E-R, not freight |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Jul 28 14:38:00 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 13:30:31 2012. Much of the track Amtrak inherited was in bad condition. That being said, the SDP40F suffered from derailment issues which never plagued subsequent models, so something in it's design was off. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 15:45:28 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 13:30:31 2012. some facts in order here. Santa Fe, certainly known for good maintenance, bought replacement passenger diesels when their F3/7s were not much over 25. GN, same story. SAL got SDP35's because their E's were ageing. Even SP who wanted out bought a few SDP45's because their passenger units were getting old. C&O/B&O were in talks w/EMD for FPs before the advent of Amtrak.Tidbit, while the Amtrak SDP40F's were speed restricted on some RR's not so on others. One might imagine differences in track quality. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 15:53:04 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 15:45:28 2012. Santa Fe, certainly known for good maintenance, bought replacement passenger diesels when their F3/7s were not much over 25. GN, same story. . . but how much longer after that were they running passenger trains? Tidbit, while the Amtrak SDP40F's were speed restricted on some RR's not so on others. One might imagine differences in track quality That should have affected all locomotives. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 16:18:59 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Jsun21 on Sat Jul 28 13:20:05 2012. Poor performers from day 1. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 16:20:24 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Jul 28 16:18:59 2012. Funny how Amtrak didn't light the fire under BBD's "caboose" over the HHP-8s as much as they did over the Acela Expresses. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 16:31:51 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 15:53:04 2012. The ATSF, MILW, GN SP units which were 645 based, lasted in pre Amtrak service at most 5 years. The GE U28/30CGs much the same.should have is not the historical reality that I experienced in those years. as to the various SDPs, FPs, they were all retained by the RRs and mostly regeared for freight. Santa Fe even bought some ex Amtrak SDPFs as rebuild fodder. SP used their SDP45s on the peninsula commutes. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jul 28 16:37:41 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 16:31:51 2012. I guess what's missing from some comprehension amongst some here is the simple fact that engines wear with time. You can get 40 years out of them, but the breakdowns increase in number after about 10 years or so and require more maintenance than when they were shiny. In passenger service, the last thing you want is a breakdown in revenue service. Not such a major thing to have to send out a rescue for a freight, after all ... loads of coal don't get all uppity if they get delayed a bit. :) |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 16:50:32 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jul 28 16:37:41 2012. which circles around to why vEs were sometimes a better bet w/2 prime movers. Also w/ freights single engine runs were rarer.A bit of PC/Conrail history. At one point new GP38-2s were ordered w/o traction motor cut out switches. (Normal EMD practice was for each of the four to be able to be cut out so the engine could limp back to the yard rather than park waiting for triple A. However shop work was so backed up on the bankrupts that engines would be sent out w TWO or THREE traction motors cut out. When the fourth... Classic, if you can't trust the crews to behave sanely, you prevent bad behavior mechanically. Sad. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Jul 28 17:12:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Jackson Park B Train on Sat Jul 28 16:50:32 2012. I've seen some of those. Gonerail got some and many lulz were had. Nothing like hard grounds to make that generator smoke. :)Even better was the leads snipped right at the motor housing. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Jul 28 20:19:39 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Lou From Middletown NY on Fri Jan 14 18:20:48 2011. "Egos" can be boosted by showing budgetary wisdom, reliable service and good management. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 28 20:50:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Jan 14 15:06:01 2011. No, it was brought over here as the ASEA Rc4 #X995. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by WillD on Sat Jul 28 23:02:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 11:34:40 2012. Other than the TGV-like fairing on the front car doesn't look too different from the final product:
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Jul 29 13:55:03 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 14 16:48:21 2011. A priest, and a Rabbi call Chic-A-Fillet to make reservations.The Bartender says, he can't take reservations. They ask why. He says , the place is mobbed with customers, but come down on Sunday. there will be plenty of empty tables! |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jul 29 14:16:53 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Jul 29 13:55:03 2012. Of course as all Chick-fil-A stores are always closed on Sundays. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 29 14:22:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jul 29 14:16:53 2012. SO was the Social Security office. You never complained about that, I'm certain. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 14:30:31 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Jsun21 on Sat Jul 28 13:20:05 2012. Mechanical issues, cracked frames. They are lemons.Question: are they salvageable enough to be viable in a secondary commuter market? |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 14:31:08 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Dutchrailnut on Sat Jul 28 14:20:11 2012. What about MARC? AFAIK, they are the only other user of this type. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Jul 29 15:33:08 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 14:30:31 2012. Question: are they salvageable enough to be viable in a secondary commuter market?Admittedly, this is one of those things that different between electrification in the United States and Europe. DB can basically cascade their older units to regional or freight services as new units come in, but nobody is going to touch Amtrak's stuff. MARC allegedly isn't fond of their units and may not want ones that have been beaten up even further, MBTA isn't going to wire anything, Caltrain is more likely to hold out for real multiple units given their desire to run at high performance levels, Denver is already waiting for new Silverliners to show up from Rotem, and hell, the MTA would probably say no. NJT has enough locomotives on property, and it's not going to work with Chicago's electrification schemes. And hell, SEPTA hasn't shown much fondness for locomotives and they'd more likely to pump out a few extra cars for the Silverliner V order. These things are going to scrap... |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Jul 29 15:37:54 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Jul 29 15:33:08 2012. Most likely situation- They stay with Amtrak. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 15:50:11 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Jul 29 15:33:08 2012. I was thinking Metro North for New Haven/NYP service, if NJT is unwilling to sell it's ALP-44's. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 15:54:24 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by R30A on Sun Jul 29 15:37:54 2012. Mothballed surplus fleet. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Jul 29 16:28:15 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Train Dude on Sun Jul 29 14:22:10 2012. Correct!! Monday Thru Friday unless you were assigned to the computer part of SSA, which runs 24/7/365. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Sun Jul 29 16:54:10 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 15:50:11 2012. I was thinking Metro North for New Haven/NYP service, if NJT is unwilling to sell it's ALP-44's.That presumes that the MTA is interested in buying several boutique locomotives that have a global reputation for being questionable at best, and that they're willing to pay to refurbish them to make them remotely viable. Do you really think that they're going to want what will probably end up being nearly 20 year old locomotives from Amtrak or even 25 year old trains from NJT? |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Jul 29 20:14:56 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri Jan 14 16:48:21 2011. Why did the Chic-A-Fillet cross the road?Because behind him, there was a Priest, and Rabbi, with two biscuits and a bottle of Hot Sauce! |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Jul 29 21:11:27 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 14:31:08 2012. and ask them if they are happy with them ?? |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Sun Jul 29 21:14:15 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 15:50:11 2012. any such service would be with M-8's, after all we did not spend nearly a million extra to now buy locomotives for local service.But as I mentioned before the HHP-8's and AEM-7's and ALP-44's will be long gone before any such service runs. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design |
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Posted by Dr. Casca on Sun Jul 29 21:39:33 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 design, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Jul 29 14:31:08 2012. True, but then again, the MARC line that uses them is operated by Amtrak, no? (Would explain their usage of AEM-7s and HHP-8s....) |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by TERRapin station on Mon Jul 30 08:31:47 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by WillD on Sat Jul 28 23:02:33 2012. Owned. |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Jul 30 21:22:15 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by WillD on Sat Jul 28 23:02:33 2012. compare that sleek design to todays overweight behemoth |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jul 30 21:36:47 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by Dutchrailnut on Mon Jul 30 21:22:15 2012. Yeah, the vents are a bit different. And the paint scheme. Looks nothing alike! Almost as different as an R40M and an R42!!! |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Jul 30 21:41:54 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by R30A on Mon Jul 30 21:36:47 2012. Come to think of it, ALP44 and AEM7 would have been a better comparison. R40Ms and R42s are pretty different... |
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Re: Amtrak's ACS-64 |
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Posted by R32_3672 on Mon Jul 30 22:55:03 2012, in response to Re: Amtrak's ACS-64, posted by R30A on Mon Jul 30 21:41:54 2012. i will miss those AEM7s & ALP44 toasters! i will not miss those hhp-8s that i call acela minis that should be scrapped, as for when was the last f40ph was in service? this ACS-64 better be just as good as those or i will cringe when i go to ny penn or newark penn. |
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