|
|
| Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel (1023952) | |
 |
|
| Home > SubChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (1023952) | |
Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011 From the George Conrad Collection at www.nycsubway.org Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley and Tunnel,1915 Would anyone like to comment on the historical aspects of this image? There are several items of interest here. Since the trolley car is up on the El structure, the El is no longer using the incline to run on the surface tracks. There is a trolley ramp from the street to tunnel tracks that appears to be under construction. The tunnel track on the left has a wood trestle heading South. There are trolleys on 65th St East of 3rd Ave. One of the items that has intrigued me is the building on the right, which was a NY & Hempstead RR Station brfore the turn of the century.  Were the tracks for this station at 3rd Ave surface level back then? There appears to be another elevated structure in the distance. What else strikes your inquisitive nature about ths image? |
|
|
| (1023987) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Nyctransitman on Mon Jan 10 13:11:50 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. It looks like they could teach the transit planners of today a thing or two about what real rail trasportation planning is supposed to be about. |
|
|
| (1023992) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 10 13:16:59 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. Looks like the western end of Fred's line where it ties into the 4th Ave. subway. |
|
|
(Sponsored) |
iPhone 6 (4.7 Inch) Premium PU Leather Wallet Case - Red w/ Floral Interior - by Notch-It |
|
| (1024040) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jan 10 15:31:01 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Steve B-8AVEXP on Mon Jan 10 13:16:59 2011. The Fourth Ave subway would have been east of this location. The tunnels and rail lines here are going toward the Brooklyn waterfront. The structure mentioned in the distance of the top photo, that suggests another elevated structure, may be a road viaduct over the harbor-side rail yard into the Brooklyn Army Terminal. |
|
|
| (1024045) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 15:36:49 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. Joe Brennan says (posted with his approval):Lowest level L to R: 1. Bay Ridge line, ex LIRR, ex Manhattan Beach 2. Sea Beach line ramp connecting to 3rd Ave Line trolleys, disused 3. Sea Beach line to the bay, no passengers by this date Middle level (street): 3rd Ave Line trolleys Upper level L to R: 1. trolley (86th St Line I think) (el ran to street in 1903 only) 2. Fifth Ave El (trivia: bridge motor at left end) The Bay Ridge and Sea Beach exchanged positions very early on, creating the crossing near 8th Ave. That's why the ex NY & Hempstead station is closer to the Sea Beach here... if that house was a station. The NY&H never operated under that name as far as I know. |
|
|
| (1024064) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 10 16:53:54 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 15:36:49 2011. Thank you (and Joe) very much for this fascinatingly informative post. |
|
|
| (1024092) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jan 10 17:54:24 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 15:36:49 2011. Cool. |
|
|
| (1024105) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 19:05:30 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. I am assuming that is the ramp that still exists near the Sea Beach portal.That area looks so completely different today, with the Gowanus. |
|
|
| (1024106) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 19:25:22 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 15:36:49 2011. Thanks. That was one busy area at one time. |
|
|
| (1024108) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Nyctransitman on Mon Jan 10 19:44:27 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 15:36:49 2011. The Lower & Middle level statement makes sense but the Upper Level isn't that the Third Avenue El 65th Street Station? I don't see signs of a trolley & Fifth Avenue el on the upper level? I do see something way in the back to the right underneath the Third Avenue El and on top of the street level trolley that appears to be a El in the backround? |
|
|
| (1024115) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 19:57:53 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Nyctransitman on Mon Jan 10 19:44:27 2011. 3rd Ave el = 5th Ave el by name. Not sure why they had to detour off 5th Ave south of 36th. |
|
|
| (1024117) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 10 20:04:34 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 19:05:30 2011. No, the Sea Beach portal is nowhere near 3rd Avenue. Remember the first stop underground is 59th and *4th*. |
|
|
| (1024119) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 20:08:17 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 10 20:04:34 2011. 
|
|
|
| (1024120) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 20:10:52 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. Here is a 1917 image of the area. |
|
|
| (1024121) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 10 20:13:15 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 19:57:53 2011. Not sure why they had to detour off 5th Ave south of 36th.Probably just staying a relatively constant distance from the shore. Remember that 1st Av ends at 39th, and that 2nd peters out somewhere in the mid-20s. |
|
|
| (1024128) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Jeff H. on Mon Jan 10 20:41:12 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. Are there trolley poles on the roof of the BU cars? |
|
|
| (1024132) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Jan 10 20:52:49 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Jan 10 20:13:15 2011. Either that, or Bay Ridge residents on 5th Ave said no. That was the reason the original IRT line diverted over to the east side from 42nd St instead of running straight down Broadway. |
|
|
| (1024147) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Michael Wares on Mon Jan 10 21:28:29 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Nyctransitman on Mon Jan 10 19:44:27 2011. "I don't see signs of a trolley ..."Look to the left of the el train. |
|
|
| (1024227) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by piyer on Tue Jan 11 07:02:08 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Qveensboro_Plaza on Mon Jan 10 15:31:01 2011. It's probably 2nd Avenue. I know that today the parking lot at the terminal is well below the level of 2nd Avenue, so perhaps at the time of the photo the avenue passed over the side street at that location. |
|
|
| (1024279) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by ModelRider on Tue Jan 11 10:25:09 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 20:10:52 2011. Here is the view today.How far we've come. View Larger Map |
|
|
| (1024329) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Jan 11 13:04:32 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. the trolley in the station has been i,d.as a waiting room for the el passengers.when the ramp was first built el cars ran on the streets to C.I.& nortons point.their wheel flanges were cutting into the girder rail so the service diddn`t last too long.I,ve seen a bklyn eagle photo looking up the ramp from street level& halfway up the ramp showing trolley x-overs very rare.in the early `30`s the `hood` wanted trolley service resumed up the ramp,but was turned down by the BRT. |
|
|
| (1024347) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Mellow One on Tue Jan 11 13:41:45 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Jan 11 13:04:32 2011. I believe that you are referring to this picture. |
|
|
| (1024351) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Jan 11 13:46:51 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Tue Jan 11 13:41:45 2011. no.i,ve never seen that.great find. |
|
|
| (1024353) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Jan 11 13:56:07 2011, in response to Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Mon Jan 10 11:34:27 2011. thats not an el structure in the background,probably warehouses around the bklyn army terminal. |
|
|
| (1024354) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Mellow One on Tue Jan 11 13:57:29 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by TUNNELRAT on Tue Jan 11 13:46:51 2011. I use the photo in my Brooklyn El Web Page. Note the text accompanying the photo. |
|
|
| (1024426) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 11 16:41:43 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Tue Jan 11 13:57:29 2011. any photos of the dyre-wire&tracks being removed in 1943?who did the removal&what equipment was used? |
|
|
| (1024437) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Ed Alfonsin on Tue Jan 11 17:47:32 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by tunnelrat on Tue Jan 11 16:41:43 2011. Rails onto the west side of Third Avenue and cobblestones were still there at least into the mid-1950s until it was all bulldozed to build the medical building. I don't recall utility poles or any wire surviving until then.Further north, there were still lots of places with exposed rail along 65th Street down to and along Second Avenue to at least 39th Street. I walked the entire area back then but unfortunately my track diagrams got lost in a family move at some point. There was also a remnant of a two-track loop under the old Gowanus Parkway northbound up-ramp, probably a survival of 69th Street or 86th Street streetcar service. Paving came up to the edges of those rails. Ed Alfonsin Potsdam, NY Bay Ridger in the 1950s |
|
|
| (1024674) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jan 12 12:21:17 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Ed Alfonsin on Tue Jan 11 17:47:32 2011. ed,thanks for that info,but you read it wrong,I was asking about the dyre ave line. |
|
|
| (1024728) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Ed Alfonsin on Wed Jan 12 15:30:03 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by tunnelrat on Wed Jan 12 12:21:17 2011. Sorry--I read the header and thought that the lower-case "dyre" was a typo.Ed Alfonsin Potsdam NY |
|
|
| (1025082) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by GIS Man on Thu Jan 13 13:35:23 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Mellow One on Tue Jan 11 13:41:45 2011. Links to 1924, 1951 and 2008 aerial images of this area:http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=9&p=977516,171796&c=GIS1924 http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=9&p=977516,171796&c=GIS1951 http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/?z=9&p=977516,171796&c=GIS2008 Enjoy! Bob |
|
|
| (1025091) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by Mellow One on Thu Jan 13 14:32:56 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by GIS Man on Thu Jan 13 13:35:23 2011. Thank you,I had this aerial image in my files. That viaduct on the east may explain what appears to be another el structure further east. 
|
|
|
| (1025945) | |
Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Sat Jan 15 23:28:23 2011, in response to Re: Brooklyn, 3rd Ave El 65th Station, Trolley andTunnel, posted by Ed Alfonsin on Wed Jan 12 15:30:03 2011. Still, it was interesting info. Thanks! |
|
|
