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Re: Historic Subway Tiles With Nothing To Do With Racism Or Even Confederacy to be Removed

Posted by Michael549 on Sat Aug 26 13:12:03 2017, in response to Re: Historic Subway Tiles With Nothing To Do With Racism Or Even Confederacy to be Removed, posted by AlM on Sat Aug 26 09:09:06 2017.

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Here are some simple questions.

As every transit fan KNOWS there are THREE IRT 42nd Street Times Square stations.

There's the one that opened in 1904 for the original IRT subway that went directly through the basement of the New York Times Building. One would expect if there was an intent to "memorialize Adolph S. Ochs" then would not the FIRST Times Square station have a clear direct stated reference to this man?

Look at the original walls of the Times Square Shuttle station tile walls. Look at them in close up. See any references however slight to the Confederacy? (I don't - but you can try to convince me.)

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?144122

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?111630

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?80891

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45887

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?45747

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?8178

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?85984

Look at the Times Square #7 tile walls. Look at them in close up. This station opened in 1917, at the same time as the #1, #2, #3 platforms above it. See any references however slight to the Confederacy? (I don't - but you can try to convince me.)

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?82954

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?50218

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?27187

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?22185

If one is going to use Astor Place as a reference, one would note that the tile references and beaver motif were ALL OVER the original station, and well documented in many places. In the case of Adolph S. Ochs - why are the only references located in a Civil War History website?

Look at the #1, #2 and #3 platforms to the Times Square station that opened in 1917. If there was an intent to "memorialize Adolph S. Ochs" would not the patterns of tiles be CONSISTENT through-out the whole station?

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?141787

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?136860

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?127821

Look at the tile work in close up.

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?98609

If there was an intent to "memorialize Adolph S. Ochs" would not the "Confederacy tile motif" be a prominent feature of the station, that was reflected in future work done at the station?

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78466

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78463

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?47556

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?46117

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?8185

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?40231

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?248

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?8174

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78454

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78452

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?78457

http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/show?44097

----------

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The supposed "connection" of Adolph S. Ochs and Confederacy to the TILE WORK at the Times Square station rests on a very SLIM REED. There has been NO CONSISTENT VERIFIABLE PROOF OF SUCH A CONNECTION OR DESIGN INFLUENCE!

You can try to convince of your argument - if you want to.

No one has pointed to any of the writings of Squire Vickers, or statements attributes to him, or direct quotes from him about his influences and work on the Times Square station. As the designer and master architect of the subways, with the various documentaries and other works about him - you would think that somebody - somewhere would have written down and saved his thoughts on this station, as well as his thoughts on the other multiple subway stations he designed.

When one's only source of conjecture is a Civil War history web-site, and the New York Post - being highly skeptical is in order.

Mike

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