Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)]

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Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)]
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Nov 6 12:23:31 2011, in response to Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 29 03:20:40 2011.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d BBC News . . . the video in the link focuses on the effect on Muslim Halal in the first half and last quarter, with a bit of focus on the Jewish Kosher in the third quarter.
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Re: Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)]
Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Nov 6 12:42:17 2011, in response to Vote next month [Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)], posted by Olog-hai on Sun Nov 6 12:23:31 2011. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Interesting new tactic: cloak antisemitism in the veil of anti-Islam. Well I guess all those sand ni**ers are all alike, right? Jews also blow up skyscrapers, I guess.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Avid Reader* on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012, in response to Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 29 03:20:40 2011.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d There is a great deal that I do not know about Kosher, and Halal requirements in the preparation of food. There are many dos, and don'ts. I had thought that most, or all, where the result of a need for clean, or sanitary conditions for the time. A thousand years ago and 5,000 years ago. Illness, or death, was found to follow, if certain conditions were not followed. So to give these sanitary rules great impact, the weight of religion was put behind them. Now with modern detection, treatment, and the use of refrigeration and manufacturing techniques, these illnesses and threats to life can be avoided. There are those among both groups, that hold to a strict orthodox practice of these laws with the belief it is both religious, and traditional. Then there are reformed, or moderate practitioners, that don't believe the wrath of God will fall on them for accepting modern and healthy practices. These believers can enjoy that which is forbidden to the orthodox believers. I have been told by orthodox believers that it would be forgiven if only non- kosher food was all that was between death by starvation. I'd like both strict and relaxed views, please,
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 10:34:35 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d There are those among both groups, that hold to a strict orthodox practice of these laws with the belief it is both religious, and traditional. Then there are reformed, or moderate practitioners, that don't believe the wrath of God will fall on them for accepting modern and healthy practices. The Orthodox don't believe there will be a wrath of G-d, either. There's also nothing unmodern or unhealthy about shechita or dhabiha.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:38:36 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jun 29 19:46:33 2011. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Israel is a big producer and exporter of canned hams. Israel is tolerant of the lax in others dietary practices.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 10:34:35 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I am only trying to find the origin for the laws. I have no problem for its continued practice. I, as goium, (spelling) enjoy cooking and styles of many types, but I'm not limited. I have my likes and dislikes. I've also been influenced by my background and upbringing. Some of this too, has been over come.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 11:05:44 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I am only tryng to find the origin for the laws. The Bible and rabbinic interpretations thereof.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 15:19:08 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 10:56:23 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Kosher has dealings with how to treat the animals, not just the modern rationalization of not eating pork because of some theory upon diseases. By banning Kosher the kooks from the Animal Rights Party or whatever they are have endorsed gross amounts of torture of animals.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 16:42:41 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 15:19:08 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d False, there is no torture of animals by non-kosher butchering. Some argue that it's more humane. your pal, Fred
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 09:44:40 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The origins of kashrut has nothing to do with health, cleanliness, or treatment of animals. The reason there is Kashrut is because G-d commanded it in the Torah. And of course "it would be forgiven if only non- kosher food was all that was between death by starvation" as the Jewish religion believes any law or commandment could be broken to save a life. That being said, I don't know why I'm even responding to a retro post as I hate retro posts.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 17:28:39 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Someone had to impart the truth.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 22 18:08:37 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Jeff Rosen on Thu Mar 22 17:07:08 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d the Jewish religion believes any law or commandment could be broken to save a life. That's not true.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Dave* on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 16:42:41 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d False, Fred. Stunning with a bolt stun gun is still common in non-kosher slaughtering and quite often the first bolt doesn't do the job.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 18:55:22 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Mar 22 11:05:44 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I guess it is the interpretations. Are some stricter then others? I have been told some Ultra Orthodox find reformed to have a worse standing then a non-Jew. I don't know if it is the dietary part, or the entire belief system. Where the Bible stories intended to give weight to a healthy choice for a lesser educated population? I look at the current obsession in Afghanistan with their belief in the holiness of the Koran by an illiterate population. Interpretation is made for them by an Iman on what we in the west consider to be our own to make. Was that how it started way back in time with the Bible. The powers in Rome held sway and over came other points of view until Guttenberg And that guy in England rewrote the old and new testaments in the native language. Only the ruling classes were educated in Latin and Greek.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Avid Reader on Thu Mar 22 19:04:58 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Mar 22 17:28:39 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d This is interesting, and I'm sure , more is to come.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Mar 22 19:09:01 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dave on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I bet the ones going on about police taser use are the same ones who think it's ok to use on animals.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Mar 22 19:24:48 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dave on Thu Mar 22 18:21:37 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'd agree with once in a while, Dave, but not quite often. The procedure itself isn't torturing the animal. your pal, Fred
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Thu Mar 22 19:28:14 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:24:48 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I've seen it done around here. Dave is right. It's extremely painful to the animal and you pray that the first kick works. When it doesn't the animal writhes in pain. Not pretty at all and gets all sorts of reactions from the animal when the first hit fails. :(
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Mar 22 19:55:03 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 22 19:28:14 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Pro's don't have failure rates like that. Some places use CO2 to pre-stun the animals so the bolt isn't even an issue. Ok, hacks like me sometimes miss with the bullet and it's ugly but I'm not a professional nor am I well managed either :) your pal, Fred
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Thu Mar 22 21:06:14 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Fred G on Thu Mar 22 19:55:03 2012.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yep ... and I'm describing amateurs as well. Off with their heads. :)
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Mar 22 18:08:37 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That's not true. It's close enough to true for this discussion.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by TERRapin station on Fri Mar 23 11:44:54 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I think it is an important distinction to make clear. It would be most, but not any/all.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Mar 23 13:32:04 2012, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Shechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Fri Mar 23 07:52:45 2012. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d How?
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 19 03:58:18 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jun 29 08:06:51 2011. bump
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 19 06:44:02 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 19 03:58:18 2021. In looking into this, it appears that the ~~douche~~ Dutch failed to fully ban kosher slaughter but in June of this year it seems that the entire Eu did.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Dec 19 07:41:11 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 19 03:58:18 2021. I normally don't like necroposting but thanks for this one showing Dutchrailnut to be an anti-Semite. I think I'll donate a brand new Louisville Slugger to Ntrainride.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by ntrainride* on Sun Dec 19 08:51:24 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by LuchAAA on Fri Jul 1 02:29:57 2011.* be you religious or be you not religious. it's a sad joke on sentient life on our planet that the "smarter" animals get to eat the "dumber" animals. and the "stronger" animals get to eat the "weaker" animals. paint it any way you want, hide it in ceremony or call it...something else. still the same plain ugly truth. and you vegetarians? same shit. you're eating a plants "babies". which is doubly sad since plants are the only living things on the planet that use sunlight and chemicals to exist. and yes, i know about venus fly trap types of plants. but they're statistically irrelevant. yeah. those "gods" we worship are wise asses. thanks alot, supreme beings.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Dec 19 14:10:01 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Train Dude on Sun Dec 19 06:44:02 2021.* FWIR, the EUSSR's so-called Court of Justice upheld bans by eight EU member states. Incredibly bad precedent. Jerusalem Post Europe needs to allow Jews to practice shechita On its surface, last week’s ruling by Greece’s highest court to prohibit shechita (Jewish ritual slaughter) is a domestic political issue in which Israel should not interfere. Eight European countries have already banned shechita (Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Switzerland, Belgium, Slovenia, and Estonia), and Israel has kept quiet. Should Israel concern itself at all with the welfare of Diaspora Jewry? As the French statesman Gen. Charles de Gaulle pointed out, nations have no friends, only interests. Indeed, Israel has concrete interests vis-à-vis Greece: a strategic military alliance, cooperation in the energy sphere, a cheap and readily available destination for beach-and-scenery-loving tourists; support for Israel in European Union votes; and many others. On the other hand, the once-glorious Greek Jewish community has dwindled into a shadow of its former self. Unsurprisingly, the animal rights lobby won out over the pro-Jewish lobby, which doesn’t actually exist. The few local Jews who observe kashrut will have to become vegetarians, emigrate, or import kosher meat, which has not yet been forbidden to them. If the harm done is minimal, and if Israel has good reasons not to jeopardize its diplomatic relations with a friendly nation, why should this ruling set off alarm bells? In order to grasp the severity of what the Greek legislation represents, we have to understand how it fits into an ongoing incremental process that will, ultimately, make organized Jewish life impossible. Although classical liberalism, with its focus on social justice and individual rights, benefited Jews in the past, the “progressive” activists now attacking Jewish particularism are harming the Jews out of a limited grasp of what it means to be “enlightened.” The damage they inflict goes beyond issues of shechita and brit milah (the covenant of circumcision); they are also assailing Jewish burial (out of environmental concerns) and Jewish schools (on charges of ethnic discrimination and gender segregation). Last summer, Belgium banned shechita, and discussions are now underway about legislation that would prohibit brit milah there, on the basis of children’s rights claims. Opinion polls show support for such a ban across Europe. Until now, only Slovenia has legislated such a prohibition, but legal efforts to do so continue in Iceland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, the Netherlands and, as noted, Belgium. The anti-circumcision movement is very active and not expected to abate anytime soon. Ultimately, if the Jewish people does not take countermeasures, brit milah bans will likely be enacted. And, as with shechita, if one prohibition is successfully legislated, others will follow. In general, societies characterized by growing secularism display strong anti-religious sentiment. The Council of Europe has declared that all member states should “require religious leaders to take an unequivocal stand in favor of advancing human rights […] over any other religious principle.” Even if we assume, for the moment, that the intentions of the “progressives” are in no way tainted by antisemitism (a highly dubious assumption), it is clear that they do harbor Eurocentric cultural assumptions. We can point out, for instance, that hunting, which results in the cruel murder of hundreds of thousands of animals each year, has not been banned by any European country — yet shechita, which allows a few hundred Greek Jews to perpetuate their tradition, has been outlawed. Lacking sensitivity to, or empathy for, non-European cultures, these “progressives” are unable to understand why Jews insist on ritual slaughter without stunning, or that the infant’s foreskin be removed when he is precisely eight days old. Lacking an understanding of the place of Halacha (Jewish law) in Jewish life, they are unable to heed the community leaders who warn that “bans on brit milah will force the Jews to leave Europe,” and that the practical outcome of such legislation would be “cultural genocide.” Those Jews most committed to their identity will abandon the continent, while others will avoid calling attention to their Jewishness; the organized communities will, essentially, cease to function. This is all the more surreal when we consider that just a few weeks ago, at the dedication of a museum memorializing the illustrious Thessalonian Jewish community, which was completely destroyed in the Holocaust, the Greek politician and European Commission Vice President Margaritis Schinas promised that Europe would spare no effort to promote the resurgence of full Jewish life on the continent. Although Israel has a moral duty, based on its Declaration of Independence and Article 6 of the Nation-State Law, which has constitutional force, to ensure the safety of Jews in the Diaspora, it has not addressed the new Greek legislation. The Jewish state has shown itself willing and able to rescue Jews in immediate life-threatening danger — an important obligation reserved for emergency situations. The current danger is more spiritual and cultural than physical, meaning that Israel could, theoretically, turn a blind eye, as it has in the past. But in light of the developments currently underway in Europe, and which are starting to spread to North America, Israel would do well to consider mounting an intelligent and effective intervention. The late Shimon Peres sent Angela Merkel and the head of the European Union personal letters that persuaded them to reverse decisions to ban brit milah, and American politicians convinced Iceland and Norway to abolish restrictions on Jewish life. Israel, given its good relations with Greece, should utilize the appropriate communication channels to request that the Greek government intervene and reverse the ruling.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Dec 19 14:15:10 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 19 08:51:24 2021.* plants are the only living things on the planet that use sunlight and chemicals to exist Not quite. We humans are partially photosynthetic, since we need sunlight to make vitamin D. And photosynthesis allows plants to metabolize the nutrients they get out of the soil.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 19 17:37:26 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 19 14:15:10 2021. ok i just looked this up. the nutrients you refer to are carbon dioxide and water. plants use the sunlight to create sugar and oxygen. so no living creatures involved besides the plant. unlike animals who do require other living "entities" in one fashion or the other to survive. seems like my original premise stands.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Dec 19 18:16:55 2021, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 19 17:37:26 2021.* There are also nitrogen, potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus and sulfur compounds involved.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 20 17:14:35 2022, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jun 29 08:06:51 2011. Bump . . . never again.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Train Dude on Thu Jan 20 17:59:24 2022, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dutchrailnut on Wed Jun 29 08:06:51 2011. Dutch and poles are the biggest anti-Semite societies in western europe
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jan 20 21:17:14 2022, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Train Dude on Thu Jan 20 17:59:24 2022. stop sucking up to Olog's bung hole your breath smell's already before Olog's influx..
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 21 06:35:19 2022, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Jan 20 21:17:14 2022. I suck up to no one you anti-Semitic piece of shit.
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Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal)
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Feb 6 16:19:53 2022, in response to Re: Netherlands looking to ban Schechita (Kosher) slaughter (and some Halal), posted by ntrainride on Sun Dec 19 08:51:24 2021.* it's a sad joke on sentient life on our planet that the "smarter" animals get to eat the "dumber" animals Ever see the size of a crocodile's brain? They do not refrain from eating humans on that basis.
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