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| (7847) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:08:31 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Wed Dec 22 15:35:00 2004.  It's not the same God, because God cannot be one and indivisible, and a holy trinity at the same time. You are incorrect. That is *exactly* what Christians believe. The Prophet Mohammed had a problem with this, and throughout the Quran denied that Allah ever had a son. Yet Islam respects the Virgin Mary, and holds that Jesus was of a virgin born. Judism, Christianity, and Islam all believe in One God, the Same God. Islam contends that the ambiguity surrounding the Trinity was injected into Christianity by St. Paul who was trying to convert pagans. He succeded in both. Christians do not have any difficulty with this ambiguity in this day in age. God is one God Indivisible: Father Son and Holy Spirit. You may claim that acceptance of this statement is a form of brain washing or conditioning, and you would be right in as much as it is said and accepted without too much crictical thought by most Christians. And any really deep thought on this subject will lead directly into hereasy. That is most other explanations have already been thought of and declaired hereitical by the year 300 (or so). What the Trinity does do, is to open more doors to access and to know this God whom we worship. |
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| (7850) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:13:47 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Wed Dec 22 15:36:51 2004. Yes And this applies well beyond the bounds of religion. Many are Republicans or Democrats because their parents were. Most all sexual deviations can be traced back to issues between the ages of five and eight. |
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| (7853) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 11:27:56 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:13:47 2004. My dad was a Republican and my mother was a Democrat. I was a Republican until the early 1980's and a Democrat ever since. |
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| (7856) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 23 11:38:03 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:13:47 2004. Most all sexual deviations can be traced back to issues between the ages of five and eightI dunno, Elias, I used to be into s/m, necrophilia and bestiality until I realized I was just beating a dead horse. Your pal, Day Job (keep) |
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| (7857) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 11:40:43 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 09:34:19 2004. You keep missing the point. Judaism and Christianity aren't basically the same thing except that one believes in Jesus and the other doesn't. Christian doctrine directly contradicts the basic core beliefs of Judaism. Neither is a branch of the other; the two are in direct contradiction.The Christian Bible incorporates the text of the Jewish Written Bible but it reads it entirely differently. Judaism also has an Oral Law (without which the Written Law makes no sense), which Christianity rejects. There are some decent comments on the issue here. |
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| (7858) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 11:42:03 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:08:31 2004. Your notion of monotheism is not Judaism's notion of monotheism. |
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| (7862) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:57:39 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 11:42:03 2004. Your notion of monotheism is not Judaism's notion of monotheism. Jewish monotheism was a long time developing. Yes, the Jews only knew one God, but did recognize other gods such as the Baals even in the post Davidic era. Christianity believes in "One God". One indivisible God. That God is also Father Son and Spirit is by definition a "mystery" of faith. One that requires no explanation. (Which is to say if I tried, I'd probably make some sort of heretical mistake in my explanation.) To try to open the mystery of the Trinity requires us to fall back to human or scientific explanations that are inadequate to the task. |
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| (7869) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 12:31:19 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:57:39 2004. Judaism recognizes that other religions worship their gods. That surely doesn't mean that Judaism recognizes those gods as Gods! On the contrary: the command to not worship other gods is quite explicit.You are welcome to justify the Trinity to yourself and to your coreligionists however you like, but please do not try to justify its compatibility with Judaism. It is entirely incompatible. According to Judaism, the Trinity is idolatry, plain and simple, end of story, case closed. |
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| (7871) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 12:59:14 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 11:42:03 2004. Correct, but that doesn't mean there is a "different" God. |
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| (7872) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 13:09:13 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 11:40:43 2004. I understand that it's more than the fact that Jesus is or is not the Messiah.However, it can not be disregarded that Christainity IS a broken off link from Judaism, and is a branch off of it. I never said they were "the same thing". There are countless differences, but again, Christians believe that Jesus was in fact God in human form, and at that point there were many new or changed aspects of religion that were now upheld. Jews don't agree with what happened when Jesus came to earth. Christians do. It's not like Christians in their beliefs manufactured a "new" God, that did not exist before Jesus. They believe it's the same one as they were worshiping before Jesus. Whether Jews agree with that or not is besides the point. It's different interpritations of the same Bible. Jews believed nothing changed with Jesus, he was "just a man". Christains believe otherwise. Again, either Jews or Christians are wrong in the way they worship the ONE God (or prehaps both are), but that doesn't mean there are two seperate ones. |
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| (7876) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 13:25:05 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 12:31:19 2004. Truth. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 23 15:20:49 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 13:25:05 2004. Truth.Mandatory "BIE One-Word Confirmation Post" has been met in this thread. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 15:29:23 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Dec 23 15:20:49 2004. Mandatory clown boy criticism quota has been met in this thread. 8-) |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 15:30:57 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 15:29:23 2004. Met and exceeded. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 15:56:17 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 12:59:14 2004. Either He is one in a very strict sense or he isn't. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:11:59 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 13:09:13 2004. This is getting a bit tiresome. Christianity cannot possibly be a branch off of Judaism since Christianity directly rejects the basic principles of Judaism.It is absolutely basic to Judaism that God has no human form. The issue is not up for debate. You keep insisting that the difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Christianity accepts Jesus while Judaism does not. That is incorrect. The difference is that Christianity is based on the acceptance of Jesus while Judaism is based on a God with no human form. The religions differ at their theological foundations. Why do you insist that Bob from Connecticut and Bob from Iowa are the same person? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by BIE on Thu Dec 23 16:14:16 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 15:30:57 2004. Truth again! |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:14:23 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:08:31 2004. In Genesis 1:1, the word for "God" is "Elohim" (The Gods). What was that about ambiguity?BTW, the apostle Paul never said "Trinity" in any of his writings. That's attributed to a fellow called Tertullian, someone that the Catholic Church calls an "early Church father" but little else is known about him . . . |
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| (7887) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:18:36 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 12:31:19 2004. According to Judaism, the Trinity is idolatryPsalm 82:6, "I said, Ye are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High." What did that feller Asaph mean by that . . . ? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:25:47 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:14:23 2004. And the verb is in the singular form. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:31:08 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:11:59 2004. It is absolutely basic to Judaism that God has no human formGenesis 1:26? "Let us (from "Elohim") make man in our image, after our likeness" . . . ? And how does a religion get named after just one of Abraham's great-grandsons? (Oh, right, the half of Israel that Rehoboam got stuck with after that big to-do with his brother Jeroboam.) You have to delineate just what is a "basic principle of Judaism"—that's a religion not quite as divided as Christianity, but very close to it. Do you agree that nothing is impossible with God, for one? The issue is not up for debate All theological issues are up for debate. That's at their very core. Issue not yet addressed by you: Moshiach? (sp) Please define. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 16:33:05 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:14:23 2004. BTW, the apostle Paul never said "Trinity" in any of his writings. That's attributed to a fellow called Tertullian Very Good! I learn more about my own faith while chasing subway cars across the internet. Paul did not need to use the word "Trinity", he elaborated on the concept of Father, Son, and Spirit. Tertullian in explaining what that was all about put a word to it. Clearly the concept had to predate the explanation. I also said that Paul's interventions was Islam's claim rather than my own. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:34:40 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:25:47 2004. What verb? You mean in the Hebrew form . . . ? |
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| (7892) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:40:24 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by willD on Tue Dec 21 16:00:03 2004. You do know where the "X" character came from, right? It's not a Latin X (or a Western Greek Alphabet X if you like), but the Greek letter Chi, and the first letter in "Christos" or CristoV . . . |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 16:48:12 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:18:36 2004. Perhaps he was aware, unlike you, that the word elohim also means judges. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 17:00:41 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:31:08 2004. God imbued man with Godly properties. That's what distinguishes man from beast. What's the problem?The basic principles of Judaism are most commonly given in the Maimonidean form. Of course religion is up for debate, but which theological belief systems can be classified as Judaism is not. When did I use the word Moshiach that I neglected to define it? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 17:02:03 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:34:40 2004. Yes. Bara, not bar'u. Learn Hebrew before trying to base your arguments on Hebrew grammar. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 18:43:52 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 11:13:47 2004. So which sexual deviations can't be traced back to issues between the ages of 5 and 8? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:16:02 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 17:00:41 2004. The story of the Ramba'm was quite impressive. It must have been a wonderful experience to be in his company. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:29:27 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:31:08 2004. It is absolutely basic to Judaism that God has no human formGenesis 1:26? "Let us (from "Elohim") make man in our image, after our likeness" . . . ? If this is true, should God be considered not one being but a being made up of others? Perhaps 'God' would be like a group of people, beings, separate deities that wanted to be known in the singular form? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:33:31 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Dec 23 16:40:24 2004. I didn't know "X" was a character??? Did you know "X" personally????Is "X" related to Malcom by any chance??? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 19:35:56 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 18:43:52 2004. Maybe too much time in the city of Sodom and Gomorrah?? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 19:36:24 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:16:02 2004. I never met him myself. I'm not quite that old. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:42:04 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 19:36:24 2004. You look like you could pass for 17(in some ways, perhaps).Except for when a person of the same vintage is standing next to you then one can see the differences. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:48:44 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Dec 23 19:35:56 2004. Is taht city in the state of transexual? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 19:54:18 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:48:44 2004. Is that near Intercourse, PA? |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 20:06:05 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 19:54:18 2004. neighboring the Austrian village of F*cking. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by vengence on Thu Dec 23 20:22:08 2004, in response to Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Dec 20 15:48:20 2004. It the time of NEW AGE thinking....The non believers crusade against GOD....and all that he stands for. |
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No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by Verbal Kent on Thu Dec 23 20:59:15 2004, in response to Is this the Neocons again??, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 22 18:53:45 2004. They are responsible for taking the joy out of the holiday season for so many. |
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| (7947) | |
Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 21:00:02 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 19:54:18 2004. Supernintendo Chalmers was raised there. He was born in Queens and educated at Ball State. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 21:10:10 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 19:33:31 2004. No, it's Pulitzer-prize winning muckraker Mr. X. |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by #4 Sea Beach Fred on Thu Dec 23 22:08:59 2004, in response to No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Verbal Kent on Thu Dec 23 20:59:15 2004. Hey VK, since they lost THE ELECTION in the battle for the Presidency and Congress they have resorted to striking out at the things we hold dear. Notice there has been a big reaction throughout the country and especially in towns in New Jersey ( a blue state). They are asking for more than they bargained for. Merry Christmas to you. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 22:22:33 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 18:43:52 2004. So which sexual deviations can't be traced back to issues between the ages of 5 and 8? According to Dr. John Money (Johns Hopkins c1980s) all of the paraphilias, be it S&M, cross dressing, WS, etc. Jeff Dhalmer got his start killing animals as a kid. Orientation is different and is not among the paraphilias. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 22:23:24 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by Broadway Lion on Thu Dec 23 22:22:33 2004. I had an orientation in high school. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 23:19:21 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by monorail on Thu Dec 23 22:23:24 2004. You are KING of North Haverbrook. |
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Re: No, It's the Liberal Secularists |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 23:20:24 2004, in response to No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Verbal Kent on Thu Dec 23 20:59:15 2004. If the joy of the holiday season for you involves eroding the separation of church and state, then I'm glad to ruin the holiday season for you. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Fri Dec 24 00:44:33 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by American Pig on Thu Dec 23 21:00:02 2004. He once went on vacation to Lake Titicaca. |
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Re: I don't believe you |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 02:45:12 2004, in response to No, It's the Liberal Secularists, posted by Verbal Kent on Thu Dec 23 20:59:15 2004. This topic has been inflamed ever since the Neocons gained more ground in DC. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 02:46:23 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by vengence on Thu Dec 23 20:22:08 2004. Hey . . . it was Bush who said "Crusade" back in '01. |
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Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 24 03:01:24 2004, in response to Re: Media Taking Christmas out of Christmas, posted by David of Broadway on Thu Dec 23 17:00:41 2004. Mind you, those principles don't support God not having a human form, just not a physical one.As for Moshe, they go too far in referring to an angel having "exalted status". Note the "king of Tyre" in Ezekiel 28:12-19, who is shown to be a corrupted member of the cherubim. There's also Job 4:18, where it's shown that God "charges his angels with folly" . . . so that's not too much higher than a flawed human, other than having supernatural powers and immortality . . . |
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