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| Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. (752073) | |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:00:18 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:50:12 2011. The sense of right and wrong predates Moses, chum.Stealing, adultery, abusing your neighbor resulted in violent reprisal so early man codified them into wrong behavior and forbid them. It's not a big leap of faith. Just like some foods made people ill so they decided to eliminate them from the diet. your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:04:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:00:18 2011. he sense of right and wrong predates Moses, chum.Source? You do understand that ancient morals (pre Judiac) were very different back then, right? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 14:09:48 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:04:17 2011. I see you retreated pretty quickly from these being Christian ideas to being Jewish.But a quick use of Google suggests that people believe Hammurabi predates Moses. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 14:09:57 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:04:17 2011. The Code of Hammurabi in Mesopotamia and the criminal codes of Egyptian and other cultures predates Mosaic laws by centuries and all punished murder, stealing, adultery and other things.They even had established civil codes for property, contracts, etc. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:10:30 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:04:17 2011. Common sense. If there were people on the planet earlier than Moses, why would the sense of right and wrong begin with him and the fable of the stone tablets. Your argument is based on Jewish belief.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:12:31 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 14:09:57 2011. It's possible that the Jewish slaves learned laws in Egypt and modified them later.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 15 14:24:56 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 13:33:59 2011. Thanks. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 15 14:36:30 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 13:38:38 2011. Huh? What does that have to do with the reason you gave earlier? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Scorpio7 on Tue Mar 15 14:43:55 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:27:37 2011. "This renders the study worthless."Don't be such a hypocrite. The ONLY reason you think the study is worthless is because it doesn't come to the conclusions you'd like to see. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:02 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:10:30 2011. Common sense has to have a source. For western civilization, that source is the 10 Commandments. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:41 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 14:09:48 2011. Judeo-Christian means both. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:56:28 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:02 2011. Bullshit. You don't understand common sense.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:58:39 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:56:28 2011. You just don't want to admit the role religion has in even our most secular beliefs. Why is it so hard? I am not a Christian, I'm not even particularly religious. I simply accept an obvious fact. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Mar 15 14:59:55 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:02 2011. Western morality encompasses more than the Ten Commandments, and since all of the Bible is supposed to be an article of faith, there's no actual historical evidence anything in it ever actually happened. This would suggest the development of moral codes evolved in gradual stages over time, instead of magically appearing with the Ten Commandments. Yes, I'm an agnostic. Yes, this makes me "socially unfit" in Luch's view. Yes, I'm saying that religions are based largely on things that can't ever be empirically proven, which is why faith is defined as the "belief in evidence of things not seen". |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Mar 15 15:00:00 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Tue Mar 15 13:39:29 2011. Kanazawa didn't break down the data by race/ethnicity exactly. I'm sure one could reanalyze the data and look at the religiosity of (ethnic) Jews only and see what the relationship looks like.Unless I'm reading the report wrong, he broke down the regression analysis of religiosity by Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and Other, and the Jewish subcategory trended closely to liberal. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 15:01:01 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 14:56:28 2011. I think he's backpedalled himself into a reasonably true statement.First he said that Christiantity was the source of prescriptions for right and wrong for the entire world. Then he backed up to Judaism. Now he says Judaism for the WESTERN world. I would agree that the Goths and Visgoths and Vandals didn't bring much to the table in this regard. The Britons probably not too much either. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Mar 15 15:02:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:43:14 2011. But where did the common sense come from? Who said it was bad to kill? Bad to steal? Bad to cheat on your wife?The NRA! |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:02:42 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Mar 15 14:59:55 2011. Whose claiming the Bible is factual?You're wrong, western morality does in fact trace it's roots to the old Testament. I still don't understand why accepting this is such a big deal for many on here. Doesn't legitimize Christianity, doesn't mean the rest of the Bible must be taken more seriously (an important thing for you, especially). |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:02:55 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Tue Mar 15 12:46:22 2011. Good post. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:05:06 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:02 2011. Common sense has to have a source.Saying that something like common sense needs to have a source is one of the greatest demonstrations of lack of common sense that I've ever read. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:06:12 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Tue Mar 15 13:43:02 2011. Of course it's worthless. It only samples the most liberal element of our population (young people in college). If anything, the results on a more representative sample would be far less useful for propaganda, which is probably why this study never conduct such a proper survey. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:06:15 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by JayMan on Tue Mar 15 13:03:48 2011. IMO "proud atheists" are tantamount to a religion. They make a belief system out of not believing. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:07:36 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:58:39 2011. I'm saying it's possible that those ideas predate the 10 commandments is all. And there's no reason to think they wouldn't. The Jews were fresh from Egypt when they were delivered the commandments.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:07:44 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 15:01:01 2011. That's because the foundations of Western Civilization are found in Classical Greek and Roman notions of modern society. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:08:03 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 15 14:36:30 2011. That's the day it all came to me. |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Mar 15 15:08:53 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 13:48:10 2011. God gave the 10 commandments to that Christian, Moses?Either that or no one observed them for the first 1300 years. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:09:01 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:41 2011. No it doesn't."Judeo-Christian" is a made-up term. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:10:30 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 13:29:31 2011. Why do so many people consider that scary? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:10:36 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:07:36 2011. That's probably true. I am not saying Jews invented morality, only that their definition shapes modern morality TODAY. This is an inescapable fact. People who claim that religion is not necessary and that you just have to be "good" don't understand or accept that such a definition of "good" is based entirely in our long, Judeo-Christian ethic. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 15 15:10:39 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:08:03 2011. Makes no sense. The major organized religions don't claim that nothing bad ever happens. They readily admit that bad things do happen to good people. So why would you use an event consisting of bad things happening to good people to denounce organized religion? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:12:17 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:09:01 2011. Of course it is. But it's been around for a couple of centuries. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:13:24 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 15:01:01 2011. Um, no. That's not what I said to begin with. Christianity is the driving force, but not the ORIGIN. |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Mar 15 15:14:03 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:02:42 2011. You said the basis for western morality was the Ten Commandments, a Biblical passage. But "western morality" traces its roots to a great many things, including Judeo-Christian concepts of right and wrong. Morality also changes over time, and Biblical or other religious beliefs have nothing to do with that. For example, it was once seen as morally correct by Southern plantation owners to continue the institution of slavery. They even used Scripture to justify it. But as times changed, so did social mores, ultimately resulting in war and the end of chattel slavery in the United States. Interestingly, Christian morality was cited by both Abolitionists and slaveowners to justify their sides of the issue. But President Lincoln got it right when he declared that slavery was fundamentally antithetical to the morals of a thinking, educated american public, regardless of religion. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:14:13 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:29:16 2011. Absolutely not. The so-called "Judeo-Christian ethic" does not exist. Further, I consider the conflation of Judaism and Christianity to be ignorant and DEEPLY OFFENSIVE.In any case, by modern standards, a person who lives under a system of biblical morality would be considered an inhuman monster. Examples include keeping slaves and treating wives as property. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:15:28 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by AlM on Tue Mar 15 13:48:10 2011. Buddhism is an eastern philosophy which had no role in shaping modern western morality. I did not say we westerners had a monopoly on morals. What I did say was that our morality has it's roots in religion and that it's silly to deny it or be afraid of it, even if you're an atheist. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:15:51 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:36:03 2011. Wow, the sheer hypocrisy. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:20:05 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:15:28 2011. OTOH the fact that an unrelated Eastern religion could have similar concepts as those of Western morality sort of supports the idea that morality springs from natural tendencies in the most intelligent beings in our known universe. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:20:51 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 13:43:14 2011. The Code of Hammurabi. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:20:54 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:10:36 2011. I don't have any problem if the Jews in fact did invent morality but the possibility that it predates them could have happened and quite possibly did. And yes, given that most laws in the US, including the so called "blue laws" are based on the 10 Commandments, gives your point credence also.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:22:16 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:10:30 2011. Because nobody's done with their Christmas shopping.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Mar 15 15:22:20 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:13:24 2011. Um, no. That's not what I said to begin with. Christianity is the driving force, but not the ORIGIN.And the Jews before Christianity...? |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:22:46 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:10:30 2011. I can't speak for others, but the fact that I'll never see anything again, experience anything again, and not know what's going on in the world again scares the crap out of me. Imagine not knowing what happened before you were born, but this time for an eternity, that's scary shit for lack of a better term. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:25:11 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:22:46 2011. That's why I'm against the death penalty no matter what the circumstance, life is the best gift one can have IMO. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Mar 15 15:26:33 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:14:13 2011. I think the term "Judeo-Christian" goes back about 4 American election cycles. "It's a Judeo-Christian" country" they say round election time. In the mean time, it's referred to as a Christian country. Anyway, I never heard the term "Judeo-Christian" while growing up and attending school. It's pretty recent.your pal, Fred |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Tue Mar 15 15:27:10 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 15 15:10:39 2011. I'm not sure if you actually saw what happened or only saw it on TV, but the fact that some religious leader of an organized religion somewhere condoned what happened that day gave up my belief in organized religion. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:32:14 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:09:01 2011. EXCELLENT POST! |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:33:12 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by SMAZ on Tue Mar 15 15:05:06 2011. ANOTHER EXCELLENT POST! |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:34:04 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:02:42 2011. I still don't understand why accepting this is such a big deal for many on here.Because for us, the truth and facts are a big deal. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Mar 15 15:36:10 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 15:13:24 2011. People don't believe in Origin anymore since they found the Ark of Truth. |
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Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives. |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Tue Mar 15 15:36:19 2011, in response to Re: Liberals ARE smarter than conservatives., posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Mar 15 14:53:02 2011. "Common sense has to have a source. For western civilization, that source is the 10 Commandments."wow...common sense started at the time of Moses? eh? kool dude ;) |
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