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Obama "extraordinarily impressed" by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 4 19:42:36 2009

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Well, what's not impressive about a fascist majority in Italy (which just took over the majority European People's Party in Brussels), a sizable neo-Nazi minority in Austria (and a burgeoning one in the source country for that party), a pseudodemocracy of a federal government in Brussels that's not accountable to the people whatsoever, a "social market economy" forced on whatever country joins that imperial union, yada yada yada . . . ?

(There's some more on the air, where Obama talks about Europe's leadership in the world. Oh, if he'd only look beyond the surface . . . how about what they're doing in Africa?)

Associated Press

Obama says he's impressed by European leadership

STRASBOURG, France (AP) — President Barack Obama says political maneuvering in Europe is about the same as it in the United States.

He says there's a lot of "wheeling and dealing," too.

Obama spoke Saturday at a news conference after the 60th anniversary NATO summit in Strasbourg, France.

It was his first meeting of this kind as president.

Obama pronounced himself "extraordinarily impressed" by the quality of leadership he saw at the gathering.

He says he had built relationships with many of the European leaders present, either having met them before his election or on their visits to Washington.

Copyright © 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.

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Obama says America doesn't "appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 5 12:51:24 2009, in response to Obama "extraordinarily impressed" by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 4 19:42:36 2009.

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The current Time Magazine article is quite important to this. Despite the title, the article's mostly congratulatory to the president, and engages in some Bush-bashing (which makes it hypocritical). Michael Scherer is clearly a Europhile; one thing about Europhiles is that they don't understand a single thing about the EU, apart from its embrace of the "social market economy" and other socialist aspects.

Mr. President: don't bash your own country and build others up, because those countries will think that you are their servant, and weak. Even worse, don't do it to the continent that has exhibited the worst racism in the history of the world and continues to do so, at an increasing rate . . . (but look at his "one of many" members of NATO, in his rhetoric; that hands off NATO leadership to the EU)

Barack Obama's New World Order

By Michael Scherer / Strasbourg Friday, Apr. 03, 2009
The United States is still the same country it was a year ago, give or take about 6 million jobs. But its international branding campaign, as led by the new President, Barack Obama, is so different that the rest of the world might be forgiven if it has to do a double take.

Most of the hallmarks of the foreign policy of George W. Bush are gone. The old conservative idea of "American exceptionalism," which placed the U.S. on a plane above the rest of the world as a unique beacon of democracy and financial might, has been rejected. At almost every stop, Obama has made clear that the U.S. is but one actor in a global community. Talk of American economic supremacy has been replaced by a call from Obama for more growth in developing countries. Claims of American military supremacy have been replaced with heavy emphasis on cooperation and diplomatic hard labor.

The tone was set from Obama's first public remarks in London on Wednesday, at a press conference with Prime Minister Gordon Brown, where the American President said he had come "to listen, not to lecture." At a joint appearance with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Baden-Baden on Friday, a German reporter asked Obama about his "grand designs" for NATO. "I don't come bearing grand designs," Obama said, scrapping the leadership role the U.S. maintained through the Cold War. "I'm here to listen, to share ideas and to jointly, as one of many NATO allies, help shape our vision for the future."

On Thursday night, after the G-20 summit ended, Obama took so many questions from the foreign press, including British, Indian and Chinese reporters, that a group of them applauded when he left the stage. Two American reporters asked Obama for his response to the claim by Brown that the "Washington consensus is over." Obama all but agreed with Brown, noting that the phrase had its roots in a significant set of economic policies that had shown itself to be imperfect. He went on to talk about the benefits of increasing economic competition with the U.S. "That's not a loss for America," he said of the economic rise of other powers. "It's an appreciation that Europe is now rebuilt and a powerhouse. Japan is rebuilt, is a powerhouse. China, India — these are all countries on the move. And that's good."

At a town hall in Strasbourg, France, Obama stood before an audience of mostly French and German youth and admitted that the U.S. should have a greater respect for Europe. "In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world," he said before offering other European critical views of his country. "There have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."

The contrast is striking. Only four years ago, George W. Bush, in his second Inaugural Address, described what he called America's "considerable" influence, saying, "We will use it confidently in freedom's cause." Bush's vision of American power was combative and aggressive. He said the U.S. would "seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture." He continued, "We go forward with complete confidence in the eventual triumph of freedom."

Obama, by contrast, is looking for collaboration. He is looking to build a collective vision, not to impose an American one. And the response has been notable, from the endless flashbulbs that fired off at his town hall to the cheers of spectators who lined his motorcade routes and gathered outside his events in London. At the end of Obama's Friday press conference, French President Nicolas Sarkozy addressed the issue directly, speaking through an interpreter. "It feels really good to be able to work with a U.S. President who wants to change the world and who understands that the world does not boil down to simply American frontiers and borders," he said. "And that is a hell of a good piece of news for 2009."

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Obama says America doesn't "appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world"

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 5 12:52:02 2009, in response to Obama "extraordinarily impressed" by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 4 19:42:36 2009.

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The current Time Magazine article is quite important to this. Despite the title, the article's mostly congratulatory to the president, and engages in some Bush-bashing (which makes it hypocritical). Michael Scherer is clearly a Europhile; one thing about Europhiles is that they don't understand a single thing about the EU, apart from its embrace of the "social market economy" and other socialist aspects.

Mr. President: don't bash your own country and build others up, because those countries will think that you are their servant, and weak. Even worse, don't do it to the continent that has exhibited the worst racism in the history of the world and continues to do so, at an increasing rate . . . (but look at his "one of many" members of NATO, in his rhetoric; that hands off NATO leadership to the EU)

Barack Obama's New World Order

By Michael Scherer / Strasbourg Friday, Apr. 03, 2009
The United States is still the same country it was a year ago, give or take about 6 million jobs. But its international branding campaign, as led by the new President, Barack Obama, is so different that the rest of the world might be forgiven if it has to do a double take.

Most of the hallmarks of the foreign policy of George W. Bush are gone. The old conservative idea of "American exceptionalism," which placed the U.S. on a plane above the rest of the world as a unique beacon of democracy and financial might, has been rejected. At almost every stop, Obama has made clear that the U.S. is but one actor in a global community. Talk of American economic supremacy has been replaced by a call from Obama for more growth in developing countries. Claims of American military supremacy have been replaced with heavy emphasis on cooperation and diplomatic hard labor.

The tone was set from Obama's first public remarks in London on Wednesday, at a press conference with Prime Minister Gordon Brown, where the American President said he had come "to listen, not to lecture." At a joint appearance with German Chancellor Angela Merkel in Baden-Baden on Friday, a German reporter asked Obama about his "grand designs" for NATO. "I don't come bearing grand designs," Obama said, scrapping the leadership role the U.S. maintained through the Cold War. "I'm here to listen, to share ideas and to jointly, as one of many NATO allies, help shape our vision for the future."

On Thursday night, after the G-20 summit ended, Obama took so many questions from the foreign press, including British, Indian and Chinese reporters, that a group of them applauded when he left the stage. Two American reporters asked Obama for his response to the claim by Brown that the "Washington consensus is over." Obama all but agreed with Brown, noting that the phrase had its roots in a significant set of economic policies that had shown itself to be imperfect. He went on to talk about the benefits of increasing economic competition with the U.S. "That's not a loss for America," he said of the economic rise of other powers. "It's an appreciation that Europe is now rebuilt and a powerhouse. Japan is rebuilt, is a powerhouse. China, India — these are all countries on the move. And that's good."

At a town hall in Strasbourg, France, Obama stood before an audience of mostly French and German youth and admitted that the U.S. should have a greater respect for Europe. "In America, there's a failure to appreciate Europe's leading role in the world," he said before offering other European critical views of his country. "There have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive."

The contrast is striking. Only four years ago, George W. Bush, in his second Inaugural Address, described what he called America's "considerable" influence, saying, "We will use it confidently in freedom's cause." Bush's vision of American power was combative and aggressive. He said the U.S. would "seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture." He continued, "We go forward with complete confidence in the eventual triumph of freedom."

Obama, by contrast, is looking for collaboration. He is looking to build a collective vision, not to impose an American one. And the response has been notable, from the endless flashbulbs that fired off at his town hall to the cheers of spectators who lined his motorcade routes and gathered outside his events in London. At the end of Obama's Friday press conference, French President Nicolas Sarkozy addressed the issue directly, speaking through an interpreter. "It feels really good to be able to work with a U.S. President who wants to change the world and who understands that the world does not boil down to simply American frontiers and borders," he said. "And that is a hell of a good piece of news for 2009."

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(433342)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Apr 5 18:25:53 2009, in response to Obama "extraordinarily impressed" by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Sat Apr 4 19:42:36 2009.

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We should be more like Europe. :p

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(433375)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 5 19:35:16 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Apr 5 18:25:53 2009.

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You wound me . . .

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(433447)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:16:01 2009, in response to Obama says America doesn't "appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world", posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 5 12:52:02 2009.

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How come you left out the part where Obama criticized Europeans for their reflexive anti-Americanism?

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(433448)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:16:07 2009, in response to Obama says America doesn't "appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world", posted by Olog-hai on Sun Apr 5 12:52:02 2009.

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How come you left out the part where Obama criticized Europeans for their reflexive anti-Americanism?

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(433449)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 00:18:45 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:16:07 2009.

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Why don't you start a thread about that, if you think it's worthy news?

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(433450)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 00:22:41 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:16:07 2009.

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I didn't write the article.

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(433451)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 00:23:40 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 00:18:45 2009.

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If Obama criticized the EU the way they need to be, they'd be screaming to drag him off to The Hague, illegally.

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(433453)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:38:40 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 00:18:45 2009.

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It was in the same speech O-Hai posted about. Either he or the article writer only told half the story.

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(433457)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 01:19:06 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by italianstallion on Mon Apr 6 00:38:40 2009.

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It's not hard to find the entire Strasbourg speech on the net. The "critical" paragraph consists of two sentences that understate what's going on in Europe, and what's been going on for far too long.
But in Europe, there is an anti-Americanism that is at once casual but can also be insidious. Instead of recognizing the good that America so often does in the world, there have been times where Europeans choose to blame America for much of what's bad.
The undue praise of the EU outweighs that by far.

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 01:38:10 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 00:18:45 2009.

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I linked the YouTube videos in a previous thread. Some like you and Olog must have deliberately ignored it. After all who needs the Truth when you have El Fiendo and Brussels Journal.

So here it is again:



Watch him mention somebody named Hussein in minute 2:20

Of course you are free and others are free to ignore it all so that you can continue to post hearsay nonsense that fits your agenda.

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(433468)

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Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world''

Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Apr 6 01:49:12 2009, in response to Re: Obama says America doesn't ''appreciate Europe's *leading role* in the world'', posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 01:38:10 2009.

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Calm down cuz. I don't have an agenda, and I'm not attacking Obama. I only asked Stallion a question.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 02:27:12 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Apr 5 18:25:53 2009.

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We should be more like Europe. :p

On certain things we should, on other things they should be more like us. On other things yet, things should stay as they are.

Under Bush we were being more like Sri Lanka.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Apr 6 02:45:10 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 02:27:12 2009.

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Somehow it felt more like Pinochet. :(

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Apr 6 14:00:30 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 02:27:12 2009.

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Your first sentence actually made sense.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Apr 6 17:44:10 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Mon Apr 6 02:27:12 2009.

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The question is how should we?
I always liked the Australian system, but things work in some places and not in others due to culture and people. We have a VERY large population who "works" just to get fired and collect unemployment. Seen it many times. If we had to give them notice and pay for weeks to do nothing or worse, or had to keep them on our staff to do nothing bringing down the organizaton, we'd be toast as a country.
Maybe Europe might import these people soon and have to get rid of their safety nets. I am not so sure.


*****Actually, an interesting point, and if I did save the link I wil post it, marketwatch did a whole story on if we should have work stoppages or more vacation like Europe. You know how instead of laying people off you have a month vacation like the french. It has about a half dozen writers with their experiences and opinions on the program. If we're going to punish our corporations or become socialist, I hope they at least give us good vacation and sick benefits to compensate.
No single person has done so little to destroy the worlds largest industry, tourism and conferences as our President has And he has the backing of the service union!?!?
If we had free time, and some job security, it may mitigate and reverse this. But not totally, as business needs conventions, and vice versa. Can't run these hotels just on family trips.

I don't know anything else I really want from Europe. At all. Well present day Europe. The East Indian Tea Company situation would be nice.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 02:22:27 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Apr 6 17:44:10 2009.

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Vacation, sick days, maternity leave and health care are something that Europe does much better and it brings great benefits to individuals and families alike, not to mention the kind of piece of mind that is essential in a healthy society. The German/Swiss/Dutch health insurance system would be an especially good fit for the US.
On labor union issues, I think they go too far towards labor while we go too far towards management. A middle point would be a boost to both cultures.

I think that they should be more like us when it comes to discrimination enforcement, attitudes towards race and immigration (the legal kind), the administration of justice, our more streamlined bureaucracies and the decentralization and localized decision-making that makes American society and culture innovative and vibrant.

I can get into the European way of mass transit, road and other public infrustructure but those kind of gas taxes would as anathema to those of us here in the US as our gun laws would be to most of them. Some rocks are better left unturned.

I think the education systems both here and there generally work well for the societies they are designed for and would not be easily exportable though we are behind the Scandivanian countries when it comes to job retraining. I can't think of a better use that can be made of one's time on unemployment benefits then re-training for something new. I also think they do pre-K early childhood education much better too. Generally speaking I think that our respective pension systems are in trouble and need to be reformed.

Either way, I don't think it is wise to instictively oppose anything that comes from somewhere else. History's greatest civilizations are the ones that adopted the best things while rejecting the worst things that the world has to offer. The ones that didn't ended up in the trashbins of History.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 7 02:30:24 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 02:22:27 2009.

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And to think ... before the advent of "neo-conservatism" it was that "melting pot" philosophy which made this country what it once was, great. Now, we as a society continue in a neverending race to the basement of banality, gutteral allegiance to a general phuck hue to everybody ... with a perverted PRIDE in the atrophy. :(

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 02:32:24 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 02:22:27 2009.

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Vacation, sick days, maternity leave and health care are something that Europe does much better and it brings great benefits to individuals and families alike, not to mention the kind of piece of mind that is essential in a healthy society

They were doing OK on that score. Then the Brussels government took away the opt-out in the Working Time Directive. (Among other things.)

I think that they should be more like us when it comes to discrimination enforcement, attitudes towards race and immigration (the legal kind), the administration of justice, our more streamlined bureaucracies and the decentralization and localized decision-making that makes American society and culture innovative and vibrant

That would take embracing democracy on the federal level. But that wasn't something designed into the EU, even going way back to the original Treaty of Rome. (The European Parliament is a typical sham democracy; the institutions with the real power, the European Commission and European Council, are all appointed.)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 04:38:55 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 7 02:30:24 2009.

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Welcome to the Age of Sarah Palin.

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(433926)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 04:40:09 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 02:32:24 2009.

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They were doing OK on that score. Then the Brussels government took away the opt-out in the Working Time Directive. (Among other things.)

I am not familiar with this.

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 7 06:22:02 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 04:38:55 2009.

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I just *LOVE* how any pointing out of the total *absurdity* of pointing out the "100% pure fundamentalist moral fiber of JESUS appointed 'Sarah the Jewess' to anoint the party" brings on such BIBLICAL responses out of the heathens every time she gets mentioned. Gotta LOVE what the republican party has turned into under Falwell's guidance. :(

Even the GOP of 2000 would have called her and her offspring "WELFARE QUEENS." But not now ... I guess I'm showing my age here ... I remember when people EVEN IN PEORIA could spot a "Music Man" miles away. :(

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 13:07:02 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 7 06:22:02 2009.

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Wow. Ever tried making sense?

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 13:26:20 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 04:40:09 2009.

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The Working Time Directive (from 1993) imposes a work week that does not exceed 48 hours. (That means not only is overtime illegal assuming a six-day work week.) Up until recently, countries could opt out of this directive; back in December of last year, the European Parliament voted to end the opt-out. None of this affects vacation time agreements that I can see, but workers are going to have to stay home a lot more and not travel as much.

(Sarko used this in order to get rid of France's 35-hour work week; he "loosened" the week hours in '07, and subsequently his parliament voted to scrap the 35-hour week altogether in July of last year. All of this after "pledging" to leave the 35-hour week alone. And if you think that's bad, you should see Sarkozy's attacks on laïcité . . .)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 13:28:16 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by SMAZ on Tue Apr 7 04:40:09 2009.

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The Working Time Directive (from 1993) imposes a work week that does not exceed 48 hours. (That means not only is overtime illegal assuming a six-day work week, but you're capped at eight hours OT in a 40-hour week.) Up until recently, countries could opt out of this directive; back in December of last year, the European Parliament voted to end the opt-out. None of this affects vacation time agreements that I can see, but workers are going to have to stay home a lot more and not travel as much; not very good for the economy nor for tax generation.

(Sarko used this in order to get rid of France's 35-hour work week; he "loosened" the week hours in '07, and subsequently his parliament voted to scrap the 35-hour week altogether in July of last year. All of this after "pledging" to leave the 35-hour week alone. And if you think that's bad, you should see Sarkozy's attacks on laïcité . . .)

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Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . .

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Apr 7 19:58:50 2009, in response to Re: Obama ''extraordinarily impressed'' by European *leadership* . . ., posted by Olog-hai on Tue Apr 7 13:07:02 2009.

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Nah, wrote that just for you. :)

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