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Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by EastSideRider on Fri Aug 24 14:39:36 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Wow! Good poem, did you create it? |
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| (240980) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Aug 24 14:51:12 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Great poem, EXCEPT for one fatal flaw, but you can fix it:Wherever you write "Our," substitute "my." Then add "my" missing from a few places. As in "It's "inappropriate" to teach my right from wrong," |
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Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 00:29:18 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by EastSideRider on Fri Aug 24 14:39:36 2007. no, but I wish I did... |
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Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 00:31:51 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Aug 24 14:51:12 2007. can do it yourselfif you feel like it |
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| (241105) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 09:06:39 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 00:31:51 2007. Otherwise the poem is all about Dictator Monorail deciding for everyone else what "their" freedom of expression should be or not be. |
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| (241110) | |
Re: new school prayer (corrected version) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 09:17:44 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Now I sit me down in schoolWhere imposed prayer is against the rule For this great nation "under God" Finds rule of Christ very odd. If Scripture now the class recites, It violates the Bill of Rights. And anytime my prayer I impose, On unwilling others becomes a Federal matter now. Our hair can be purple, orange or green, Hurts no one else; it's a freedom scene. The law is specific, the law is precise. My Prayers assaulting non-believers are a serious vice. For praying in a public hall Might offend someone with no faith at all At home or in church we may pray, but no gods' names are prohibited by the state. We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks. They've regulated guns, but neither Quran nor Bible. To quote the Good Books makes me not liable. We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen, And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King. It's appropriate to teach right from wrong, We're taught that strictly on the Bible does belong. We can get our condoms and birth controls, At Home study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles. But the Ten Commandments are not allowed, But wordsv and histories of gods may reach this crowd. It's scary for bigots here, I must confess, For bigots and priests the school's a mess. So, Lord, this silent plea I make: Let not the bigots the schools take! Amen! |
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| (241111) | |
Re: new school prayer (2nd corrected version) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 09:18:57 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Now I sit me down in schoolWhere imposed prayer is against the rule For this great nation "under God" Finds rule of Christ very odd. If Scripture now the class recites, It violates the Bill of Rights. And anytime my prayer I impose, On unwilling others becomes a Federal matter now. Our hair can be purple, orange or green, Hurts no one else; it's a freedom scene. The law is specific, the law is precise. My Prayers assaulting non-believers are a serious vice. For praying in a public hall Might offend someone with no faith at all At home or in church we may pray, but no gods' names are prohibited by the state. We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks, And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks. They've regulated guns, but neither Quran nor Bible. To quote the Good Books makes me not liable. We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen, And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King. It's appropriate to teach right from wrong, We're taught that strictly on the Bible does not belong. We can get our condoms and birth controls, At Home study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles. But the Ten Commandments are not allowed, But wordsv and histories of gods may reach this crowd. It's scary for bigots here, I must confess, For bigots and priests the school's a mess. So, Lord, this silent plea I make: Let not the bigots the schools take! Amen! |
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| (241113) | |
Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version) |
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Posted by Zman179 on Sat Aug 25 09:21:54 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Lord,Get me out of Brooklyn. Amen. |
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| (241114) | |
Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 09:23:56 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version), posted by Zman179 on Sat Aug 25 09:21:54 2007. LOL |
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| (241161) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 18:22:13 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 09:06:39 2007. think 'bilabial fricative'......... |
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| (241164) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Aug 25 18:40:24 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 18:22:13 2007. Good point. That's all the original poem you posted really means.At least Jabberwocky made semantic sense. |
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| (241168) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by soton si on Sat Aug 25 19:59:40 2007, in response to new school prayer, posted by monorail on Fri Aug 24 07:19:06 2007. Surely the lack of prayer, etc in schools is actually offensive to believers that their children are taught by state education, that God doesn't matter so we won't teach anything about it.I'm sure atheists got atheism legally made a religion in the 60s to stop prayers in schools (as it was discriminating them). Now isn't the lack of prayer, etc in schools treating the rights of atheists as more important as Christians, etc, and thus causing the whole thing to go into a catch-22 situation? I'm by no means an expert on US law, so correct me if I'm wrong. In the UK there are a large number of people who are opposed to the teaching of Religious Studies in schools, saying it just breeds division and indoctrinates children. However RS in the UK is so pluralistic that it just covers "this group believes x for this reason and that believes y for that reason", if anything it aids understanding of other's beliefs. To not have this subject would basically remove any references to anything spiritual from school, adding to the increasing indoctrination (that seems to have mostly succeeded) of this country that even thinking about those things is of no use in life, and not worth bothering with. In effect it's indoctrinating secularism and, to a lesser extent, atheism in people. |
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| (241179) | |
Re: new school prayer |
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Posted by monorail on Sat Aug 25 22:28:13 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by soton si on Sat Aug 25 19:59:40 2007. BINGO! |
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| (241236) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:14:58 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer, posted by soton si on Sat Aug 25 19:59:40 2007. The myth, though, is that by not offering religion in schools you are somehow indoctrinating poeople in atheismm.Is there a lack of churches or synagogues or what not iun the US? Is Monrail feeling so deprived of religion that he has to have it in public school? Last time I checked, you could cover your whole house in religious icons, Bibles, Qurans, whatever, and you could spend your entire weekend in church, revelling in whatever you like to revel. You can even put your kids in private religious school or home-school them and turn them into zombies who know nothing save liturgy. All perfectly legal and available to anyone. So why should he spend my tax dollars doing that in public school? |
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| (241241) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 26 11:30:46 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:14:58 2007. I'm sure he'll come up with horrible examples where atheists have used the public schools to promote their view of religion.45 years ago I went to junior high school in a heavily Jewish school district where one science teacher was a really annoying guy. He would take every possible opportunity to point out how science "proved" that all religion was bogus. Parents complained about him, but no one really took it too seriously - no one sued or anything. Basically, parents who cared just told their kids that the guy was full of bull and that was the end of it. Nowadays you'd probably get 17 lawsuits. |
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| (241244) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:36:26 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 26 11:30:46 2007. It's sad how stupid we've gotten.Supreme Irony: The first description of evolution is found in the Book of Genesis. Darwin elucidated the mechanism and brought it to life. Unfortunately the prevailing view of the day was that of the clerics, whose moron approach to the sbject primarily concerned their own political power. They liked people to stay stupid, obedient and tithing... |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 14:35:59 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:14:58 2007. ' Is Monrail feeling so deprived'eating a great deal of beans will help you BLOW IT OUT YOUR ASS!!!!! |
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| (241283) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 14:42:24 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 14:35:59 2007. You do a lot of that here. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 14:48:47 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 14:42:24 2007. I follow your lead... |
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| (241286) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 14:50:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 14:48:47 2007. No, you don't. You do it all by yourself, for yourself. |
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| (241344) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by soton si on Sun Aug 26 18:54:36 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:14:58 2007. "The myth, though, is that by not offering religion in schools you are somehow indoctrinating people in atheism."how is it a myth, I see it here in the UK, first-hand - most of the country are functionally atheists due to the media and the culture not mentioning God. They don't see it as an important issue - the national religion is "we don't care". "So why should he spend my tax dollars doing that in public school?" but likewise why should tax dollars be spent on enforcing a ban on religion? By not allowing full freedom of religion in public buildings - you have to be a practical atheist, not acknowledging God. You allow freedom of thought, and that is good, however you don't allow freedom of expression of that when in public buildings. If something is legal, doesn't mean that you have to do it, or participate in it. If something is illegal, then there is no choice in the matter. Allowing prayer in schools isn't forcing Christianity, or anything else on people. Not allowing prayer, etc is forcing atheism on people, at least practically. While not explicitly saying "there is no God", it's implying that he doesn't, through neglect of teaching anything, even in an open minded way, examining evidence for him. 'Surely if there was a supreme creator and judge of everything who is our beginning and end like mommy and daddy say, we'd be learning about him in school? If he exists, it would be the most important thing to learn about, so because we miss such an important thing off the curriculum, it can't be important, and therefore God doesn't exist' must surely be a question and answer running through the minds of many children across America - if this isn't indoctrination to atheism, then what is? |
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| (241353) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 19:16:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Sun Aug 26 18:54:36 2007. "how is it a myth, I see it here in the UK, first-hand"Actually, no, you don't. You feel threatened by your own misconceptions. It's a little like tripping over yourself. "the media and the culture not mentioning God. They don't see it as an important issue - the national religion is "we don't care". Actually, your national religion is the Church of England, and it is alive and well and on public display every day. "but likewise why should tax dollars be spent on enforcing a ban on religion?" What ban? There's no ban on religion. There's a ban on using public money to proselytize a particular religion in public school because people not sharing that religion paid for the school too. Thus, the school is neutral ground where any person can feel safe. "By not allowing full freedom of religion in public buildings - you have to be a practical atheist, not acknowledging God. " False statement.The state is neutral to religion, or existence of a deity. You as individual can believe anything you like. "Allowing prayer in schools isn't forcing Christianity, or anything else on people." False statement. The effect is to stigmatize people who do not participate and make them second class citizens. And since there are many religions and many denominations of religions, you cannot possibly accommodate all of them within a school day. This is why the Supreme court recognized that governments' being neutral is important - there are many places that are appropriate for open display of worship and a few places that are not. Many religious Chridstianss and Jews would actually be offended by your position. I have a close friend, an Orthodox Jew, who is a government lawyer. He is self-assured and believes fervently in his religion. He dovens and attends services and observes the Sabbath. But when he enters a courtroom he removes his Yarmulke. Why? Because the Yarmulke does not definer his Judaism; it is only an outer icon of it, and entirely unnecessary to his self-esteem. At the same time, he makes the statement that his purpose in Court is not to "be a Jew," though he is one. It is to represent the citizens of the United States, as an officer of the Court, and to uphold the Constitution. The Constitution has no religion, is not a religious symbol, yet represents our freedom to believe in whatever religion (or not) that we like. When he completes his trial day, he leaves the building, puts his Yarmulke back on, and goes about his life. When Iwas in school, individual students could wear a Yarmulke, cuoulkd doven, could put out a prayer mat at recess and pray to Mecca, or whatever. But a teacher could not lead an organized rayer, because that brings the State into the picture to endorse it. 'Surely if there was a supreme creator and judge of everything who is our beginning and end like mommy and daddy say, we'd be learning about him in school? Ad when you prove that there is one, we'll study it (it's not a provable or disprovable thing). As of now, it's purely a conjectural thing. If you choose to believe there is one, by all means believe in it. Public schools do not teach that there is or isn't one - you're free to believe as you like. If you want the schools to teach that there is one, you're free to enroll in a private religious school. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:46:46 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Sun Aug 26 18:54:36 2007. Haven't you je$u$ nazis done enough to wreck this country. take your nazi asshole rePUKKKEliKKKans and GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY COUNTRY. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:48:10 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:36:26 2007. that is what je$u$ is all about. Ignorance. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:49:36 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 14:48:47 2007. quit trying to put the make on certain subchatters, slimeball. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 20:59:15 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:49:36 2007. QQQQ! |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by JohnL on Sun Aug 26 21:40:24 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 19:16:49 2007. There is no ban on prayer in school. You are free to pray as you like,There is a ban (in the US) on organized prayer in school. And there is a significant difference between the US, where there is a constitutional separation of church and state, and the UK, where there is an established church. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 26 22:01:15 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by JohnL on Sun Aug 26 21:40:24 2007. I have yet to meet a student who hasn't prayed before a math test. :) |
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Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version) |
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Posted by BMT Guy on Sun Aug 26 22:03:46 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version), posted by Zman179 on Sat Aug 25 09:21:54 2007. Heh...I thought you was a Queens kinda guy.Like the old saying goes: Born in Brooklyn -- REARED in Queens! Hahahahaha! ;-D |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 22:13:50 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 26 22:01:15 2007. kinda think Jason Voorhies or Michael Meyers PREYED before and after a math testor any test for that matter...... |
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| (241399) | |
Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version) |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 22:15:30 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version), posted by Zman179 on Sat Aug 25 09:21:54 2007. take a subway, bus, walk run, auto, taxi, swim, skateboardthere are many ways for you to leave Brooklyn, just go if you want.... |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 22:30:12 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:46:46 2007. Check the polls. The Jesus freaks *ARE* the country. |
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Re: skool prare |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 22:57:24 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 19:49:36 2007. IAWTP |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 26 22:58:09 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Sun Aug 26 18:54:36 2007. most of the country are functionally atheists due to the media and the culture not mentioning God.Huh? When I was growing up I didn't learn about God from the media. I learned from my parents and the religious education classes (totally independent of the public school system) they sent me to. |
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| (241409) | |
Re: nonsense |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 22:58:45 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:36:26 2007. The first description of evolution is found in the Book of GenesisThe words "God made" are not compatible with evolution. Any evolutionist will tell you that. But then again, you support terrorists that want to destroy Israel. |
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| (241410) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:01:06 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by JohnL on Sun Aug 26 21:40:24 2007. Thank you, John. Yes, absolutely correct. |
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| (241412) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:01:38 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 26 22:01:15 2007. LOL! |
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| (241413) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 23:01:39 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 22:30:12 2007. More and more people are seeing the truth. |
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| (241414) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:03:21 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 26 22:58:09 2007. Youmean the media didn't hound you for being religious?Maybe Monorail forgot to pay his New York Times subscription or his cable bill... :0) |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:04:00 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 22:30:12 2007. The Jesus freaksEven I will differentiate between Jesus and "Je$u$". Those that care about the real Jesus are in a very tiny minority. |
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| (241422) | |
Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version) |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:12:11 2007, in response to Re: new school prayer (3rd corrected version), posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 22:15:30 2007. You can even fly, if you have access to Floyd Bennett |
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Re: nonsense |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:17:20 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 22:58:45 2007. Not true. G-d made and then he let things evolve afterward. |
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Re: nonsense |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:27:16 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:17:20 2007. That is a very compatible description.The scholars of the Bible believed God started the evolutionary process. They described it to the best of their observation and knowledge. I'd say they did pretty well. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:30:00 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:04:00 2007. No, that's what the minority of those that don't believe in Jesus say to themselves to rationalize their position. I, OTOH have no problem NOT believing in Jesus, but co-existing with those who do. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:31:23 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 23:01:39 2007. Again, not according to the polls. 3 in 4 Americans believe Jesus was the son of God, and that he died on the Cross and was resurrected. You are confusing politics with religion. |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 23:31:59 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:04:00 2007. Jesus believers are growing in strength. je$u$ is getting weaker. Google " creation care " |
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:33:11 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:30:00 2007. "I, OTOH have no problem NOT believing in Jesus, but co-existing with those who do."That sentence appears to say you have a problem co-existing with people who believe in Jesus. I assume you actually mean you have no problem coexisting with them |
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| (241444) | |
Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 23:33:45 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:31:23 2007. Maybe Jesus was the son of God, but je$u$ certainly wasn't. There's margarine and then there's butter. |
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Re: skool prare |
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Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:35:15 2007, in response to Re: skool prare, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 22:57:24 2007. QQQQas well.... |
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