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| N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 (1033634) | |
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| (1033634) | |
N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013 Charlie Cook, National JournalMost Americans would be astonished to learn that North America could be energy independent by 2020, thanks to the technological advances in the exploration and production of natural gas and oil, along with progress in energy efficiency. Because of these advances, including hydraulic fracturing (fracking), we are quietly witnessing one of the most important transformational changes in our country’s history. The implications are significant for our national security, our balance of trade, the restoration of our economy, and the creation of jobs, in what is now being called the coming manufacturing renaissance. A Jan. 29 report by the Wall Street economic and policy research firm International Strategy & Investment was certainly eye-opening for me. Culling through research provided by some of the leading energy experts in the world, the ISI report, “How the U.S. Energy Renaissance Is Changing the Global Investment Outlook,” gives the reader a whole new attitude toward our future. The International Energy Agency now predicts that the U.S. will be the world’s largest natural-gas producer by 2015, surpassing current leader Russia. Statistics compiled by the U.S. Energy Information Administration and ISI’s integrated-oil analyst Doug Terreson indicate that the share of energy from domestic sources will rise from 79 percent of consumption today to 87 percent by 2020 and that the majority of the other 13 percent will come from Canada or Mexico. The U.S. now has one of the lowest prices for natural gas in the world, averaging $3 per MBtu (1 cubic foot of natural gas is equal to 1,000 British thermal units of heat energy) compared with $15 in Japan, $13 in South Korea, and $11 in Germany. With 30 percent of electricity in the U.S. currently being generated by natural gas, cheap gasis bringing down the cost of electricity, and rates here are about 50 percent lower than in Europe. Oil production in the United States hit a 20-year high in January, and the International Energy Agency is predicting that it should surpass Saudi Arabia, the leader, by 2019. Crude oil imported from OPEC has already dropped to below 50 percent of our imported oil, with the share from Canada and Mexico at almost 40 percent. By 2030, more than 80 percent of the oil imported in the U.S. will likely come from Canada and Mexico. Exxon Mobil predicted in December that North America will be a net exporter of liquefied propane by 2025, and this continent is already the largest propane producer in the world. What this means is that the United States is poised to be far more competitive in manufacturing than we have been in a long time. Lower energy costs can offset much of the higher labor cost here, although advances in automation and productivity are bringing down our labor costs as well. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 14:35:33 2013, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. usa! usa! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:42:43 2013, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. Of course, the left wing lunatic fringe would like to ban hydraulic fracturing in the US. Rather than supporting efforts to make it even safer than it currently is (maybe 20 families have had their water contaminated in the last decade), they would rather support such wonderfully clean alternatives such as strip mined coal and Nigerian oil. Who cares if those West Virginians or Nigerians can't drink their water? |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:43:59 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:42:43 2013. Hmmm. I'm not aware of left-wingers supporting strip-miming. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:47:16 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:43:59 2013. If you don't allow natural gas production in the US, what is the alternative for producing electricity in the large quantities in which it gets used?(I have no objection to wind - just it will take a few decades to meet the country's needs. And even then you either need storage or a backup capability for when the wind dies down.) |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 7 14:54:40 2013, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. Rubbish. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 15:00:47 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 7 14:54:40 2013. Huh? |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 15:04:14 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:47:16 2013. Well you can't put those mills everywhere. Wasn't there reports about birds like eagles getting killed by flying into the path of those things? |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 7 15:29:47 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 15:04:14 2013. Wasn't there reports about birds like eagles getting killed by flying into the path of those things?Migration paths are studied during design of wind farms. Still, in 2001, 6,400 birds were killed by the 3,500 existing wind turbines in the U.S. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:45:45 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 7 15:29:47 2013. Collateral damage, I'm afraid. Look at all the birds killed (and sometimes people killed) by bird collisions with airplanes. Yet we don't stop flying. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 16:47:23 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:45:45 2013. Would it bother you if birds were being killed by energy friendly windmills? |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:48:52 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 16:47:23 2013. Not at all, if steps were taken to minimize the kill. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:49:41 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Feb 7 14:54:40 2013. Proof? Or don't you believe in a fact-based universe? |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 16:49:59 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:48:52 2013. ATTACK!!!!!!!!!!!You're all worked up. I should know better. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:59:28 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 16:49:59 2013. You are insane! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 7 17:09:25 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 7 15:29:47 2013. Still, in 2001, 6,400 birds were killed by the 3,500 existing wind turbines in the U.S.I wonder if PeTA supports wind turbines ? Bill Newkirk |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 7 17:15:58 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:47:16 2013. They just ignore the impact of the alternatives. The same thing is behind the controversy over nuclear power. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Feb 7 17:16:01 2013, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. Wow, the economy is expected to tank THAT much by then?! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Feb 7 17:42:55 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 7 17:15:58 2013. The nuclear power controversy is worse---probably a result of bad timing as well. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 17:56:51 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:48:52 2013. How? Giant netting?Now if you were to build those turbines off the shores like cape cod etc area in the Kennedy's backyard. I'm all for it :) |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 17:58:48 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 7 17:09:25 2013. Well, they promote degrading women by making them pose nude to voice opposition against animal cruelty. Anything's possible :) |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 17:59:25 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:48:52 2013. Ok. The same steps should be used to keep birds out of engines. Then we won't have another USAir on Hudson fiasco. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 7 18:15:31 2013, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. Thank you Mr. President. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Thu Feb 7 18:45:23 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:47:16 2013. Fickle wind energy is best used to electrolyze water to produce hydrogen. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 19:28:16 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Feb 7 15:29:47 2013. 2 birds per turbine isn't much. As we saw in an recent thread, cats do much more damage. Let's outlaw stray cats! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 19:54:01 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 17:58:48 2013. Women posing nude is not degrading! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 7 21:42:48 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 19:54:01 2013. +58,008 |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 7 22:10:01 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 16:45:45 2013. Not to mention how many birds fly into glass windows. At our old house which was a chalet style jobbie, we'd have several dozen bird strikes a year. Few survived. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Feb 8 00:21:23 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by AlM on Thu Feb 7 14:47:16 2013. If you don't allow natural gas production in the US,You can allow natural gas production in the US without having to resort to hydrofracking and all its attendant problems. That's probably a good thing because at the rate we're burning through shale gas we're unlikely to have much left by next century (not to mention no potable ground water). what is the alternative for producing electricity in the large quantities in which it gets used? NUCLEAR! Why the irrational fear of nuclear power when you support so risky a technology as popping a balloon of natural gas many miles below the earth, and *hoping* you can stick a straw into the ground and suck the gas out faster than it enters the surrounding soil? We're going to be stuck with a toxic legacy centuries long from this frenzy of hydrofracking, if not from the methane than at least from the chemicals injected into the wells. I know, the lobbying organization for the natural gas lobby have assured us all that it's perfectly safe, except that I seem to remember other industries saying much the same thing. Worst of all, we're doing it all around the country, creating thousands of potential Superfund sites at each one. By comparison Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima start to look like relatively straightforward environmental problems. At least with a nuke you know what parts are contaminated, and for the most part they're aboveground. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Feb 8 07:54:15 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 7 17:59:25 2013. Years ago there was a study about putting screens over the front of jet engines. The conclusion was that it wouldn't help. If a bird flew into the engine of a jet going 125 - 150 mph (or faster), it would be diced by the screen and still sucked into the engine. Plus, even without birds the screen affected the air flow entering the engine and reduced its efficiency. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Feb 8 07:55:08 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Newkirk Images on Thu Feb 7 17:09:25 2013. PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 8 09:02:01 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Dave on Fri Feb 8 07:55:08 2013. If it's so wrong to eat animals, why are they all made of meat? :)your pal, Fred |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Dave on Fri Feb 8 10:15:22 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 8 09:02:01 2013. No more callers, folks, we have a winner! |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Feb 8 10:23:52 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by Fred G on Fri Feb 8 09:02:01 2013. Slippery slope there . . . those partial to "long pig" may think they now have a mandate (pardon the pun) . . . |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Feb 8 10:52:30 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by grand concourse on Thu Feb 7 14:35:33 2013. They're including Canada's tar sands in their assessment.But so long as we're sucking fossil fuels from the ground any independence will be a transitory thing. Also, the cost to process the tar sands effectively ends any potential for the era of cheap gas to return. We're not going to have another oil glut, not with China and India in the picture, and so it'll come down to processing costs where tar sands are weakest. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Feb 8 16:01:47 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 8 10:52:30 2013. And the cost of those tar sands are the reason why gas prices are as high as they are given that Canada is our major source of late. Extracting oil from that goo is not cheap. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 8 18:12:13 2013, in response to Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by WillD on Fri Feb 8 00:21:23 2013. I think the answer is not any one thing. A good complete plan:1. Nuclear for base load, located FAR from population centers. 2. Natural gas also for base load, located close to population centers. 3. Solar and Wind for peak load. Since peak load happens in the daytime, this works out fairly well. And finally: 4. Investigate more hydro power locations. Yes, large dams can cause "ecological disasters" and might ruin pretty scenery. But "nature finds a way" and will compensate, and there is nothing more efficient, reliable and overall "green" than using simple gravity to generate power. |
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Re: N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Mar 12 15:30:56 2025, in response to N. America to be Energy Independent by 2020, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 7 14:25:44 2013. Wow, what a prophecy. Would have come true if the Uniparty didn't steal the election from Trump in that year. |
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