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| The world is upside down! (2006064) | |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:48:19 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. And if that isn't proof enough that the world is upside down, an ordinary banana taped with duct tape was auctioned off as art for 6.2 Million dollars!! https://www.facebook.com/nytimes/videos/576446508217682 |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Fri Nov 22 04:19:44 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. As an Israeli, I would question your description of Netanyahu, and think he has overstayed his time as PM - but I fully agree with your assessment of the actions of the ICC. He is the democratically-elected Prime Minister of Israel, and has been engaged in a vicious war started by terrorists who deliberately fight in a way designed to maximize civilian casualties - and he's the one who gets charged???It's gotten to the point that I advised my sons - all of whom have served during the course of this war - to avoid flights with stopovers in Europe if they fly to the US due to concerns about bogus "war crimes" charges. What a twisted world we live in. subfan |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 08:14:27 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. This is where you are wrong. Anti-semitism is baked into the DNA of every gentile. Look at world history over the past 2000 years. In every society, its always been easier to blame Jews for the ills of the world instead of taking on the real culprits. And there’s always another excuse - they’re too rich and powerful; they’re poor and disease-ridden; they’re too insular and won’t integrate; they’re mixing their DNA into our society. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 22 09:07:18 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 08:14:27 2024. You're out of your skull again; you know that's not true and you're denying the real cause. Why are you preaching division? |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 22 09:17:46 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. What do you think of when you think of judges?Some of them were hired for their racist views with their stupid outfits. And Bragg is literally a Soro's candidate, and unlike 25 other cities, you folks were too stupid to vote him out. If I recall correctly, I think you have to allow yourself or be part of the ICC to be a part of their trials and hearings. So no sweat. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 10:16:30 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Fri Nov 22 04:19:44 2024. Great post. Too bad there isn't a "like" button here like on Facebook. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 10:21:31 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 08:14:27 2024. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 10:32:03 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Nov 22 09:07:18 2024. I am not preaching division. I am telling it like it is. Read history. Jews have been blamed for every societal ill, in every era. Too rich and too poor. Too powerful and too weak. Too clean and too dirty. Too insular and too intrusive. Sometimes Jews are blamed for opposite things in the same era. Take our own time - Jews are excoriated in some circles as being war-mongering imperialist hawks bent on world domination, while in other circles they are deemed far left wacko liberals seeking to poison American society. At the same time.And what your version of the "real cause", by the way? There have been others throughout history who have claimed to have solved the "real cause" of why Jews are so hated. Lets hear yours. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 22 10:32:37 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Fri Nov 22 04:19:44 2024. " and think he has overstayed his time as PM "Yeah, we should've had one of those other do-nothings in office instead. Maybe you can have someone so radical and Euro/American like that their response would've been to blame the other side. Then the world will fully accept Israel. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 11:52:20 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. This is where you are wrong. Anti-semitism is baked into the DNA of every gentile. Look at world history over the past 2000 years. In every society, its always been easier to blame Jews for the ills of the world instead of taking on the real culprits. And there’s always another excuse - they’re too rich and powerful; they’re poor and disease-ridden; they’re too insular and won’t integrate; they’re mixing their DNA into our society. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Nov 22 13:27:13 2024, in response to The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 01:37:03 2024. Welcome to Lefty Logic Land! |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Nov 22 14:40:02 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Nov 22 13:27:13 2024. I agree there is an outrageous double standard on the left with respect to Israel. Note that our President does not agree.Meanwhile, Tulsi Gabbard blames Russian atrocities in Ukraine on the United States, and despite knowing this about her Trump appoints her to be DNI! |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Nov 22 14:58:31 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 08:14:27 2024. I respectfully disagree. That's like saying every non-negro hates negros, then pointing to anecdotal evidence to "prove" their point. |
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| (2006150) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Nov 23 15:26:30 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Jeff Rosen on Fri Nov 22 10:16:30 2024. Thank you. |
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| (2006151) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Sat Nov 23 15:33:54 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Nov 22 10:32:37 2024. Au contraire - I don't want some "do-nothing" in office, but someone who (a) has fresh ideas, and (b) puts country ahead of self. I lost confidence in Netanyahu when he refused to allow a budget to be passed during his earlier coalition with Gantz so as to preserve his ability to trigger a government collapse while hanging on to his office - a move that backfired on him when he miscalculated on the number of votes he actually had.That move was highly damaging to all government functions, including the army, as they were not able to plan and purchase necessary equipment - causing some of the issues that were faced at the start of the current war. Netanyahu was a fine leader who did many good things for Israel - but it's now time for him to go and be replaced by the next generation of leaders. subfan |
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| (2006162) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 23 20:26:57 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Sat Nov 23 15:33:54 2024. You're contradicting yourself. |
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| (2006169) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Nov 23 21:40:43 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Sat Nov 23 15:33:54 2024. "That move was highly damaging to all government functions, including the army, as they were not able to plan and purchase necessary equipment "Maybe we need to regroup and resync. You talk of buying necessary equipment. neo-nazi's go on about the west giving "military aid" as though this is all free. ANd here I am donating money for boots for soliders and others buying helmets and tefillin, and others sending their sons overseas to Israel. We have too many people with too many realities in conflict. We need to go on the same page and stop with the politicans. just my imo |
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| (2006176) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Nov 24 01:06:02 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Nov 23 21:40:43 2024. OK, let's take it from the top:1. The lack of a budget presented by the government and passed by the Knesset meant that the prior year budget was effectively rolled over. That led, though, to an inability to fund new equipment that is not purchased on an annual basis, but only periodically - it hadn't been in the prior year's budget, and so therefore was not in the rolled-over budget. Had a new budget been passed, the necessary equipment would have been sourced, ordered, and procured. No budget - no new equipment. 2. A budget WAS passed by the Bennett-Lapid government - and yet another by the current Netanyahu government. These helped start to solve the problem - but three years without a budget takes time to correct for - think how much maintenance is needed to bring a machine back up to spec if it's been ignored for three years. As such, the army was not as fully prepared and equipped as it would have been absent the budget fiascos. 3. In case of an all-out war, which is essentially what has been going on for the last year-plus, it is necessary th obtain significantly more equipment than would have been necessary in peacetime. This is particularly true with respect to munitions, which are used up rapidly. Israel has a fairly extensive weapons-manufacturing capability, but this is generally supplemented by US pre-positioned equipment that Israel is allowed to use in case of national emergency under signed agreements with the US. However, much of this equipment was drawn down by the US and shipped to Ukraine prior to 7 October - necessitating rapid shipment of additional US equipment to Israel for Israel's needs. Yes, this was military aid - some purchased, some transferred at no cost. So? 4. The helmets being purchased and shipped are so-called "tactical" helmets, lighter and more comfortable than the "classic" helmets, while providing equal protection. The army had been in the process of cutting over, but they'd been doing it more gradually - first for the elite units, then for infantry, then armor, etc. During the current war, though, there was a massive influx of reservists in active combat as well - and while the older helmets were just as protective, their weight, in particular, meant that soldiers were more likely to take them off in what they perceived as safer locations - which were often still not quite safe enough. There was therefore a need for as many more tactical helmets as they could get their hands on - with many generous donors doing what they could to get hold of these and ship them. As an aside, many of these privately-donated helmets were unfortunately not up to spec - they were cheap knock-offs, mainly intended to look cool when going paintballing rather than to really defend against bullets or shrapnel. As a result, a couple of months in, the IDF manned the use of these privately-donated helmets. 5. Donations of Tefilin - most Israelis are not Orthodox, and don't necessarily put Tefilin daily. Many soldiers, though, became more religious during the war - both as a way of showing Jewish national pride and as is common amongst soldiers in wartime - and there was therefore a demand for Tefilin by these soldiers. The army's religious services department tries to accommodate, but there is always need for more - so donations are welcome. I hope the above is helpful in making some sense of the situation - and the reality on the ground. subfan |
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| (2006177) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Sun Nov 24 01:08:25 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Nov 23 20:26:57 2024. Oh? How so?subfan |
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| (2006181) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 24 07:54:36 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 10:32:03 2024. Too rich and too poor. Too powerful and too weak. Too clean and too dirty. Too insular and too intrusive.So, maybe, just maybe, Jews are just like everyone else with diverse opinions like everyone else. Let's take another look at the looking glass. |
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| (2006182) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 24 08:18:00 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Mitch45 on Fri Nov 22 11:52:20 2024. Anti-semitism is baked into the DNA of every gentile.It's a two-way street. In my family tree, an ancestor, Jewish, had a first wife also Jewish. Fine so far. They two sons I know of. The first wife died, and the husband re-married a non-Jew woman, the mother of my ancestor. Although the two older brothers taught him their trade, tailoring, they refused to recognize him as a brother. He was a non-Jew. |
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| (2006183) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 24 08:32:23 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 24 08:18:00 2024. Fortunately I don't have non-Jewish friends; I don't have Jewish friends.I only have friends. How they classify themselves is their concern. |
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| (2006201) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Nov 24 12:43:52 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Avid Reader on Sun Nov 24 08:32:23 2024. Amen! |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Tue Nov 26 12:21:18 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Sun Nov 24 01:08:25 2024. Wondering if you missed this - I don't see a response. |
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| (2006385) | |
Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Nov 26 12:53:07 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Tue Nov 26 12:21:18 2024. It's a normal way for him to operate when you call him on something. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Tue Nov 26 15:53:23 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by AlM on Tue Nov 26 12:53:07 2024. I didn't actually call him out - I asked him to explain what he meant, as I could not understand the point he was trying to make. I did give a pretty comprehensive analysis of the army's situation at the start of the war in another branch of the conversation - but that was not in response to the post in question.subfan |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 26 16:43:10 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Sun Nov 24 01:08:25 2024. Refusal to pass budgets do not lead to governmental collapse. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Wed Nov 27 06:34:51 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Nov 26 16:43:10 2024. That it's not correct. Under the Israeli system, a government has to pass a budget within a certain period of time from when it is sworn in, or it collapses as a matter of law. Netanyahu did not pass a budget because his agreement with Gantz stated that if one side of the unity coalition pulled out and caused the government to collapse, the leader of the other side would become interim prime minister, serving until after elections and a new government being sworn in.Netanyahu's plan was therefore to keep having the coalition pass laws extending the deadline for a budget so that he could stay in office - then, just before Gantz was supposed to take over, prevent the passing of an additional extension. This would result in the government collapsing as a matter of law, rather than as the result of one side withdrawing support - enabling Netanyahu to stay in office as caretaker Prime Minister instead of Gantz. The plan backfired, though, when Netanyahu tried to pass another law extending the budget deadline for a few more months. One of the members of the Knesset who had come in with Gantz was thought to be unable to vote as she was either out of town or in hospital (I forget which), and without her, there was a majority in favor of the extension. Counting on this, Netanyahu had the bill brought to the floor for a vote. However, she was, in fact, around, and hid in the Knesset parking garage until the voting had begun - then ran in and voted against it, causing the extension bill to fail and the automatic collapse of the government, earlier than Netanyahu had wanted. So, Olog - you were saying that refusal to pass budgets don't cause governmental collapse? Why don't you stick to commenting on things you actually know something about, or at least have an opinion on that's not blatantly contradicted by facts? You clearly don't know the Israeli system or Israeli law - so while it's perfectly reasonable for you to ask for explanation, please refrain from accusing those who DO know the system of contradicting themselves. subfan |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 27 14:42:46 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Wed Nov 27 06:34:51 2024. Argumentum verbosium. Thanks for your opinion. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Wed Nov 27 15:45:11 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Nov 27 14:42:46 2024. Using pseudo-Latin does not make you more than a pseudo-intelectual. And I cite fact, not opinion. The fact that this maneuver was intentional on the part of Netanyahu was confirmed by one of his coalition agreement negotiators, who, when asked if this was bad-faith negotiation responded that the other side had attorneys, and should have realized that this loophole had been left. I don't know that I've ever heard a more cynical response, to be honest (and yes, that last sentence is a personal view).You could man up and admit you were wrong, you know. I, at least, would not think less of you for it. subfan |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 28 12:42:30 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by subfan on Wed Nov 27 06:34:51 2024. "That it's not correct. Under the Israeli system, a government has to "Hahahaha. That banana republic with the court that doesn't repect the rule of law and makes up the biggest bullshit to fit their ideaology of the day? In Iran they protest to get rid of the supreme council. In Israel they protest to protect it. |
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Re: The world is upside down! |
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Posted by subfan on Fri Nov 29 03:09:33 2024, in response to Re: The world is upside down!, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Thu Nov 28 12:42:30 2024. You may or may not agree with the Israeli Supreme Court (I often don't - especially on matters of jurisdiction and standing), but the country is far from a banana republic. And the law in question was properly passed by the Knesset and has not been challenged - so I fail to see how your point is anything other than just an attempt to knock an Israeli system that you can't be bothered to try to understand.subfan |
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