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| From NBCNewYork (1985490) | |
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| (1985490) | |
From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024 "MTA details next steps amid cash crater from governor's abrupt congestion pricing pause"I'll toss in a step: union layoffs. |
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| (1985491) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 10 21:44:35 2024, in response to From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024. I don't know about layoffs, but a hiring freeze for sure.Reduce workforce through attrition. If a total about 100 train operators and 100 conductors each are expected to retire next year, then NYCT will cut 100 jobs. They have done this before. |
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| (1985493) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 22:02:41 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 10 21:44:35 2024. It's the commuter train lines that are most in need of downsizing. |
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| (1985494) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:25:20 2024, in response to From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024. Anti union as usual.Which titles in the union would you lay off? Bus Operators? Train Operators? Conductors? Maintenance Staff? Let's hear it. |
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| (1985495) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:26:05 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 10 21:44:35 2024. Then there will be service cuts. |
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| (1985496) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 10 22:33:19 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:26:05 2024. Yes. I can see that happening. |
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| (1985497) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 22:37:30 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:25:20 2024. I don't know enough about operations to say what job titles are suitable for downsizing, but given that LIRR/MN ridership is down about 30% from 2019 and at this point is almost certainly not going to recover, it's time to make the appropriate service cuts. Rush hour schedules in particular can be trimmed. This in turn will require staffing cuts, as much as possible through attrition but likely with some layoffs required. Any private company that had seen a permanent 30% reduction in sales would have been through multiple waves of layoffs by now. |
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| (1985498) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:39:01 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 22:02:41 2024. This is why LIRR workers have been working w/o contracts as they know they may be better off with the status quo.I get it that you want new ways of fare collection like on some systems where proof of payment is required. Maybe the unions would go for cuts by attrition rather than lay-offs. IDK what the ratio is currently on MN & LIRR as to all ticket collectors vs. the number of cars. Is it 2 to 1? 3 to 1? Certainly the commuter rail unions are much stronger than TWU who allows OPTO where the t/o has to leave the train under certain circumstances leaving no worker on board. |
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| (1985499) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 22:44:22 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:39:01 2024. I believe the subway is doing a better job of handling the post-Covid changes than the commuter lines. |
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| (1985505) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jun 11 01:25:28 2024, in response to From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024. Howabout ENFORCEMENT of the law?? That is the solution. |
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| (1985511) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 01:54:34 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jun 11 01:25:28 2024. They may have gotten the hint. Many times in the last few months I've seen a horde of NYCT inspectors board the 14th street buses (which have Select Bus Service so you need to have a ticket in your possession) at 3rd avenue and issue a whole bunch of summonses for each bus. |
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| (1985512) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jun 11 02:04:21 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 01:54:34 2024. That's just window dressing. You need police enforcement at the stations |
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| (1985513) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 11 04:50:25 2024, in response to From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024. Layoffs can't breach contract.Why not management layoffs? |
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| (1985517) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 11 05:48:59 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 22:44:22 2024. I believe the subway is doing a better job of handling the post-Covid changes than the commuter lines.Per schedule: number of trips scheduled for 11 Jun 2019: 8444 Per schedule: number of trips scheduled for 12 Jun 2024: 8396 The real cost deficits are run up by buses. Per schedule: number of bus trips scheduled for 11 Jun 2019: 54,160 Per schedule: number of bus trips scheduled for 12 Jun 2019: 54,163 N.B. both subway trips and bus trips are canceled because of manpower shortages, as per service alerts. Sorry, I have not been archiving M-N and LIRR GTFS schedules. |
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| (1985519) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 11 05:54:37 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 01:54:34 2024. (which have Select Bus Service so you need to have a ticket in your possession)Not if you pay by OMNY. The sidewalk machines cannot handle OMNY. Riders are supposed to tap as they enter. They do not receive a paper receipt. Do inspectors have equipment to verify those paying by OMNY or do they make a mental note of those who entered without tapping? |
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| (1985520) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jun 11 06:46:25 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Bill from Maspeth on Mon Jun 10 22:39:01 2024. It is not so much the length of the train but the expected loads. A 10 car train off peak may only be staffed with 2 (splits of 4 and 6 are not uncommon). The same 10 car train during peak time may have 3-4 crew with the possibility of an additional “collector” between Jamaica and western terminus. |
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| (1985524) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 08:12:26 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 11 05:48:59 2024. So you archive NYCT? Why? Is that the best that you can do with your life? |
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| (1985530) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 09:07:14 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jun 11 06:46:25 2024. The LIRR used to have positions of "ticket collectors" that rode between NYP and Jamaica back and forth to protect revenue. I dont know if thats still the case.On Metro North, Poughkeepsie to GCT rush hr trains would have two conductors on from Poke to Croton-Harmon and one conductor to take the 7 car train into GCT. Going home, Poughkeepsie bound rush hr trains would often leave GCT with one conductor. |
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| (1985531) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 09:15:41 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 11 04:50:25 2024. MTA was always management top heavy. Most were promoted from crafts within so the managers maintained their union protection and still paid their union dues. So when cutback day came and you got the letter to "clean out your desk and exercise your seniority", they'd still have a job. If any cut back manager didn't have any craft seniority, it was back to the street. |
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| (1985533) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 09:37:55 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 11 05:54:37 2024. Yes, I forgot about OMNI, since seniors still have metrocards.Do inspectors have equipment to verify those paying by OMNY or do they make a mental note of those who entered without tapping? The latter makes no sense. They are boarding a bus full of people who boarded at a prior stop. Not sure about the former. If not, I guess people could dodge the fare by having an OMNI card but not actually bothering to tap in, and then just showing the card to the inspector. That seems a bit elaborate for the average fare dodger, but if it works I'm sure some of them have learned to do it. |
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| (1985534) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 09:40:14 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jun 11 02:04:21 2024. Window dressing?Third and 14th is not a place where reporters would hang out to observe NYCT enforcement activity. Agreed they have to do it in the subways too. I was only pointing out a single increase in enforcement activity. Anecdotal, yes, but I know you're OK with that. |
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| (1985537) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 09:59:24 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 09:15:41 2024. That's not correct. I was hired as a Road Car Inspector and was represented by TWU local 100. Some years later, I was promoted to supervisor and was thus represented by The SSSA (subway and Surface Supervisors Assoc.). When I was promoted to a level 2 supervisor, I was no longer represented and continued to be non-represented through the remainder of my career. In fact, of my 30 years at transit, I was represented through just the first 4 1/2 years. |
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| (1985550) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jun 11 11:28:40 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 09:37:55 2024. That would be even more fun if people claimed they used their phone. Does anyone know if the app shows the last time it was used and where? |
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| (1985551) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 11:29:54 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 09:59:24 2024. Understood. I was just referring to the ways things were done at Metro North. Was it mandatory that you lost your union representation? |
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| (1985564) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 12:11:27 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 11:29:54 2024. Yes it was and it was benificial as I was able to "negotiate" my raises. |
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| (1985567) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 12:30:13 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 12:11:27 2024. Interesting. At MN concerning promotions from within the ranks, it was encouraged (but not required) to keep your union protection, even up to senior mgt level. Raises were given yearly based on performance evaluations.So if the axe fell one day, you could always go back "in the ranks" and preserve your (albeit smaller) paycheck. If you got a mgt position hired right off the street w/o any union protection, if the axe fell on you, you went back to the street. |
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| (1985568) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 12:30:24 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 12:11:27 2024. Interesting. At MN concerning promotions from within the ranks, it was encouraged (but not required) to keep your union protection, even up to senior mgt level. Raises were given yearly based on performance evaluations.So if the axe fell one day, you could always go back "in the ranks" and preserve your (albeit smaller) paycheck. If you got a mgt position hired right off the street w/o any union protection, if the axe fell on you, you went back to the street. |
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| (1985587) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 11 16:17:21 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Tue Jun 11 12:30:24 2024. At NYCT, open managerial positions were applied for by submitting a resume. Jobs were open to current employees as well as people from the outside. They included performance, employee availability, safety and financial metrics.As for raises, each year I needed to submit my goals for the subject year. We were then rated on how successfully we met those goals and how well those goals met the needs of the organization. The raises were based on those ratings. |
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| (1985613) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Jun 11 20:16:22 2024, in response to From NBCNewYork, posted by Peter Rosa on Mon Jun 10 21:36:49 2024. Ok so we’ll make some folks unemployed while taking out the very people that make the system run in the first place.Muy brilliant. |
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| (1985631) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Jun 12 00:49:19 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 01:54:34 2024. Considering how often I've seen people jumping the turnstiles, I hope the MTA got the message. |
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| (1985635) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Jun 12 02:38:37 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 09:40:14 2024. Sure, but NYC has to fight crime like we did from roughly 1993-2013. 1991 for underground. Proactive policing shrinks crime. |
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| (1985642) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Jun 12 06:09:19 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 11 09:37:55 2024. Here's another example of "not paying fare".I was on a local bus as it passed a high school. Driver opened both doors and let students enter without using their Metrocard. Probably all the students had discount card. This technique allowed bus to be filled much more quickly, than had each student been required to insert Metrocard into fare box. BTW, when I was high school student, 65+ years ago, we had to throw a nickel into fare box and show pass. One bus driver on route would cover fare box for students. |
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| (1985718) | |
Re: From NBCNewYork |
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Posted by Mark S. Feinman on Wed Jun 12 23:20:05 2024, in response to Re: From NBCNewYork, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jun 11 05:54:37 2024. Do inspectors have equipment to verify those paying by OMNY ...Yes they do. You show them your credit card or device used to pay for the ride and the inspectors have a gizmo that checks the card/device and verifies that it was used to pay on the bus. I witnessed this firsthand on the M34 when inspectors got on at 2nd Ave and I used an OMNY tap to pay for my ride. --Mark |
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