Re: Affirmative Action

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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 17:48:25 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 17:43:11 2023.* Why yes he is! So is this guy
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Chicagomotorman* on Thu Jun 29 17:49:16 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 17:46:00 2023.* Thank you
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 17:58:39 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 17:40:05 2023.* Like people implying he was appointed simply to be the “token black”?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 18:00:44 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 17:46:00 2023.* “I attended Yale Law School, Yale had opened its doors, its hearts, its conscience to recruit and admit minority students. I benefited from this effort... But for affirmative action, where would I be today? These laws and their proper application are all that stand before the first 17 years of my life and the second 17 years.” -Clarence Thomas
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Thu Jun 29 18:01:01 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 29 17:58:39 2023.* It’s a political appointment, it’s not based on merit.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Thu Jun 29 18:01:39 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 16:24:59 2023.* Why is that funny? Because he voted on principle instead of emotion and race?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Thu Jun 29 18:02:25 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 29 18:01:39 2023.* He doesn’t vote on principle.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 18:02:36 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 29 18:00:44 2023.* And then he pulled the ladder up behind him It doesn’t matter. The pissed off Asian kid is going to be humbled when he finds out that he’s still not gonna get into that top school because of legacy and donor acceptances
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 18:03:21 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 29 18:01:39 2023.* No, because he benefited from affirmative action. Yale law school.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 18:03:53 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 18:02:25 2023.* Yes, he does he votes on the principle of bribery
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Thu Jun 29 18:23:19 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 29 17:58:39 2023.* Perhaps. But why is Sotomayor there? And Jackson?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by gp38/r42 chris* on Thu Jun 29 18:34:01 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 18:03:21 2023.* And did Jackson?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by AlM* on Thu Jun 29 18:45:26 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 29 18:34:01 2023.* You're confusing political appointments with non-political admissions to universities. Every Supreme Court appointment is political.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Jun 29 19:04:23 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 15:20:33 2023.* For which we can thanks affirmative action. I fear retrenchment after this. The effects of this decision are yet to be seen. Expect to see a patchwork of retrenchment early on, and should this bad decision not be reversed, a slow growth towards a more widespread exclusion and repression building over years…such as schools returning to single sex, with additional exclusionary hurdles being placed slowly over time. It may be one thing to mandate schools to follow admission guidelines such as affirmative action, it is another to ban the practice even if the school wishes to continue their present practices. Discrimination is alive and well in America. Like it or not. Agreed that affirmative action is an imperfect solution but it's done actual good regardless, and it's the best we could come up with.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Jun 29 19:06:30 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 15:57:13 2023.* There aren't quotas. That was done away with. When admissions reflect the general population, we can eliminate affirmative action. We are NOWHERE near that.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by chicagoMotorman* on Thu Jun 29 19:11:51 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 19:06:30 2023.* LIKE HELL THEY AIN'T QUOTAS!
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Re: Thank You John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, And Amy C
Posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 19:12:18 2023, in response to Re: Thank You John Roberts, Clarence Thomas, Samuel Alito, Neil Gorsuch, Brett Kavanaugh, And Amy C, posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 17:10:06 2023. BUMP
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Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan
Posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 19:12:31 2023, in response to Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan, posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 17:12:12 2023. bump
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 19:13:03 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 29 18:34:01 2023.* Yes, she did benefit from affirmative action but unlike Thomas, voted to keep it.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Jun 29 19:15:04 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 17:31:47 2023.* He stated as much.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 19:17:32 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 15:20:33 2023.* Didn’t white women benefit the most from AA?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:18:08 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 18:02:36 2023.* Yes he definitely has that stereotypical Boomer "Rules for thee, but not for me" mentality. For people expressing dissatisfaction over the perceived need to double their efforts for university acceptance due to affirmative action favoring minorities they believe undeserving, perhaps a refresher course in history is warranted. It's crucial to remember why affirmative action was initially instituted and how we're pretty much a breath away, less than two generations, from explicit legislations that hindered minority populations by constricting their educational accessibility. When declaring that universities should only consider academic performance in their admission process, consider the long-lasting effects of generations of people's ancestors being denied educational rights. Reflect on how this historical deprivation could hinder someone's opportunities compared to an individual from a Caucasian background, whose lineage had the advantage of education, superior employment opportunities, and communities that weren't excessively surveilled by racially biased drug enforcement policies that disrupted families and constrained economic progress. Additionally, think about the current assaults on public education, the systematic deconstruction of our educational financing, and the inclination of certain political figures to siphon public resources for private school operations. Who has the means to attend these institutions? If you're of the belief that systemic racism is a myth, you're mistaken. If someone is boasting about a GPA that they claim is high enough for Stanford or Yale but believe it's being overshadowed by affirmative action, perhaps that GPA shouldn't be as high as they think since they clearly have a deficiency in critical thinking skills and a rudimentary comprehension of history.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:26:35 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 17:27:25 2023.* No to mention that the Military is exempt, because... reasons? cough💰💸🤑cough
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Fred G* on Thu Jun 29 19:28:34 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 17:28:15 2023.* Sounds about white to me
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:32:43 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 15:20:33 2023.* The assertion that the ongoing impact of "past discrimination" is exaggerated misses the broader picture. While women have made significant strides in higher education, disparities persist in certain fields, especially in STEM. Additionally, yes, it's essential to acknowledge individual accomplishments, but it's equally important to recognize the systemic and structural barriers that different groups face. The notion that people are solely defined by their group identity is a misunderstanding of the intention behind policies like affirmative action. Affirmative Action policies rather aim to level the playing field, acknowledging that historical and ongoing discrimination can shape an individual's opportunities and achievements. It's not about negating individual accomplishments, it's about ensuring that everyone has the same opportunity to achieve.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:35:37 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 11:02:04 2023.* Nope, economic circumstances don't necessarily dictate intellectual or academic potential at all. A lot of brilliant minds have emerged from humble beginnings, and it's through opportunities like education that their potential can be fully realized. In a fair society, everyone should have the right to access opportunities for growth and development, regardless of their economic background.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:36:17 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 16:15:09 2023.* You mean like Clarence Thomas himself?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Jun 29 19:36:52 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 29 19:32:43 2023.* Do you feel the same about the NBA?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by AlM* on Thu Jun 29 19:39:38 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 12:56:14 2023.* Colleges already engage in income-based affirmative action, just the other way around. Well, they should start doing it the way around that benefits those of lower income. Again, no point admitting students who will just flunk out.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:41:14 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 12:56:14 2023.* Colleges already engage in income-based affirmative action, just the other way around. A huge flaw of our for-profit higher education institution. Legacies and Athletes make the majority of 💰 for said institutions, thus unfairly skewing admissions in their favor. I don't think that this decision is about equality, but rather more about sticking it to black people and cultivating dissent between Asian and Black people so that Republicans can get more Asian votes and Asian 💰.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Thu Jun 29 19:42:36 2023, in response to Affirmative Action, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Jun 29 10:23:33 2023.* IT IS WHITE FEMALES THAT BENIFIT FROM THIS THEN LATER SOME BLACK FEMALES BLACK MEN EXCLUDED
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Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan
Posted by Mitch45* on Thu Jun 29 19:44:10 2023, in response to Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan, posted by chicagoMotorman on Thu Jun 29 17:12:12 2023.* What did you expect from them? I never had that much respect for Sotomayor anyway. I used to appear in her courtroom when she was still a Federal District judge in the ‘90s. She was a sarcastic, know it all back then too. Wise Latina my metatarsals. Just another loudmouth liberal.
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Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan
Posted by Peter Rosa* on Thu Jun 29 19:51:14 2023, in response to Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 29 19:44:10 2023.* Both Kagan and Sotomayor will die childless.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by mtk52983* on Thu Jun 29 19:54:34 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 19:06:30 2023.* If not for Parents Involved in Community Schools case, Seattle would have quotas. For Hign Schools you could apply to any in the district, but if a school had more people wanting to go there than slots one of the criteria for pruning the admissions list was that the racial makeup of the school could not be more than X% off of the racial makeup of the district as a whole. I forget the exact number which is why I used X. The end result was that at some point (I think it was around 70-75%) it was acceptable if that many were minorities but not if that many were white. The ratio of one group to the other was still the same, but the order made one acceptable to the district and one not. Supreme Court rightfully rebuked the school district.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Chicagomotorman* on Thu Jun 29 19:54:38 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 19:15:04 2023.* Why do you hate being White?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:55:20 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jun 29 13:44:18 2023.* The case you're referring to indeed played a significant role in the history of affirmative action, but it's important to note that the Supreme Court's decision was not a flat out rejection of affirmative action. Rather, it held that while racial quotas like the one implemented by the University of California weren't constitutional, race could still be considered as one factor among many in the admissions process to promote diversity. The term "reverse discrimination" implies that there is a norm for discrimination, which considering the historical context, has been largely against marginalized groups. Your concern about "perpetrators" hiding "reverse discrimination" seems to suggest that there is a widespread, malicious intent to disadvantage white individuals. Affirmative action policies were put in place not to unfairly advantage minority students over their white counterparts, but rather to rectify historical injustices, level the playing field, and provide equal opportunities for all in a society where systemic racism has caused significant disparities in opportunity. You also have to remember that despite measures such as affirmative action, racial disparities in education, employment, and other areas persist today. Affirmative action policies are not overcompensating, but rather are still necessary to combat deeply entrenched systemic racism. When discussing and criticizing affirmative action, you should have a nuanced understanding of affirmative action and its role in our society. The goal should always be to aim for fairness and equality, and recognizing that our historical and social contexts necessitate measures to rectify past and ongoing injustices.
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Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Jun 29 19:55:25 2023, in response to Re: Fuck You Sonia Sotomayor, Ketanji Brown Jackson. and Elena Kagan, posted by Peter Rosa on Thu Jun 29 19:51:14 2023.* As will millions of women who are liberal. And that's good for civilization.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 19:57:27 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Jun 29 15:40:01 2023.* I don't get the point of this sentiment or why it bothers you so much. How would you want to "fix" this? Quite frankly, this reads as some Boomer "Old Man yelling at a cloud" kinda stuff.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Osmosis Jones* on Thu Jun 29 20:03:17 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Jun 29 19:36:52 2023.* Apples and Oranges. In professional sports, the primary factor for selection is individual performance and talent. Yes, the NBA is predominantly composed of Black athletes, and this is a reflection of individual merit and skill within the context of the sport, not a policy that seeks to rectify historical and systemic disadvantages. Conversely, college admissions aim to take a holistic view of a student's potential, considering not just test scores and GPAs, but also other factors like extracurricular activities, leadership qualities, personal essays, and yes, sometimes, the demographic background of the student. The purpose of that comprehensive approach is to create a diverse learning environment that benefits all students and prepares them for a diverse world. In other terms, the goal of policies like affirmative action is to provide equal opportunities for education to all students, regardless of their racial or ethnic background. The situation in professional sports like the NBA is a different context with different considerations.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by mtk52983* on Thu Jun 29 20:07:14 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 29 20:03:17 2023.* But what about schools like Harvard that purposefully rank Asians lower in certain categories and have a very broad definition of Asian.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by bingbong* on Thu Jun 29 20:12:13 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Chicagomotorman on Thu Jun 29 19:54:38 2023.* I don’t. Doesn't mean I or anyone else has more rights, including being obnoxious about it.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by BILLBKLYN* on Thu Jun 29 20:18:18 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Thu Jun 29 14:48:57 2023.* The People elected him.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by Chicagomotorman* on Thu Jun 29 20:20:20 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 20:12:13 2023.* We ALL have the same rights.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by BILLBKLYN* on Thu Jun 29 20:20:49 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 15:04:22 2023.* WABB
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by https://salaamallah.com/* on Thu Jun 29 20:22:00 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Jun 29 20:18:18 2023.* GORE WON
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by AlM* on Thu Jun 29 20:22:42 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Chicagomotorman on Thu Jun 29 20:20:20 2023.* So you oppose colleges giving preference to the children of alumni?
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by LuchAAA* on Thu Jun 29 20:24:26 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 29 17:27:25 2023.* ? It's genetic expression. Students who go to universities of higher education are born smarter, taller, better looking, and well spoken. It's in their genes. It's who they are. Just like we see in sports.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by mtk52983* on Thu Jun 29 20:24:30 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by AlM on Thu Jun 29 20:22:42 2023.* I have a problem with any preference that is not based on a person’s particular ability to perform at a school and legacy admissions are not tied to performance.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by BILLBKLYN* on Thu Jun 29 20:30:38 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by bingbong on Thu Jun 29 19:06:30 2023.* It's not about looking like the general population, it's about admitting the smartest, whomever they may be.
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Re: Affirmative Action
Posted by AlM* on Thu Jun 29 20:34:48 2023, in response to Re: Affirmative Action, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Jun 29 20:24:30 2023.* Is your name CMM? :) But since you answered, do you object to a college giving preference to a student with lower family income, on the grounds that they have a statistically harder time doing well in high school?
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