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“Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020

According to DC hack Elizabeth Drew, they are just "unrevealing quip contests". No, you can't save Biden in that way . . .

Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates

They’ve become unrevealing quip contests.

Nervous managers of the scheduled 2020 presidential debates are shuffling the logistics and locations to deal with the threat of the coronavirus. But here’s a better idea: Scrap them altogether. And not for health reasons.

The debates have never made sense as a test for presidential leadership. In fact, one could argue that they reward precisely the opposite of what we want in a president. When we were serious about the presidency, we wanted intelligence, thoughtfulness, knowledge, empathy and, to be sure, likability. It should also go without saying, dignity.

Yet the debates play an outsize role in campaigns and weigh more heavily on the verdict than their true value deserves.

Perhaps the most substantive televised debate of all was the first one, between John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon, which Nixon was considered to have won on substance on the radio, while the cooler and more appealing Kennedy won on television. Since these weren’t true debates, the concept of “winning” one of these odd encounters was always amorphous. (To be sure, many questions by panels of journalists were designed less to stimulate debate than to challenge one of the candidates.)

Over time, the debates came to resemble professional wrestling matches, and more substantive debates were widely panned in the press. Points went to snappy comebacks and one-liners. Witty remarks drew laughs from the audience and got repeated for days and remembered for years.

Some of them have been less than hilarious, but they did the job of dominating reaction to a debate. Whatever substance existed was largely ignored. In 1980, when Ronald Reagan debated the incumbent Jimmy Carter, Carter made a serious point about Reagan’s position on Medicare, and Reagan’s riposte, “There you go again,” a non-answer if ever there was one, brought down the house and that was that.

In the first 1984 debate, Reagan, seeking re-election and at 73, the oldest person to be nominated for the presidency, seemed tired and tended to wander off mentally at times. His lackluster performance caused panic among his staff. Democratic supporters of former Vice President Walter Mondale saw an opening.

But another debate soon followed. Thoroughly prepared, Reagan got off the crack, “I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent’s youth and inexperience.”

The audience roared and Mr. Mondale feigned a laugh, knowing he was cooked. Not even Reagan’s ending of that debate, reminiscing about driving along the Pacific Coast and musing about time capsules, was enough to undermine his political prospects. Reagan’s “joke” aimed at nullifying the age issue dominated the post-debate chatter.

But what is the point or relevance of the carefully prepared one-liner? It’s as spontaneous as a can of sardines. It’s usually delivered from a memory chip in the mind, having been fashioned and rehearsed with aides. When is a president called upon to put down an interlocutor, be it a member of Congress or a foreign leader?

This, by the way, isn’t written out of any concern that Donald Trump will prevail over Joe Biden in the debates; Mr. Biden has done just fine in a long string of such contests. The point is that “winning” a debate, however assessed, should be irrelevant, as are the debates themselves.

The better way to pay attention to and choose among the presidential candidates is to follow the long campaign that so many complain about. The reason for such moaning has always been a mystery, because unless the campaign is taking place in your living room, you can simply switch it off.

The key words are “pay attention to,” because over the stretch of 2015-2016 it wasn’t impossible to see the implications of a Trump presidency. Not just the vulgarity but the ignorance and insensitivity and extreme narcissism were apparent more than a year before Election Day.

Moreover, we didn’t need the debates to tell us that Trump had chosen to be the P.T. Barnum of American politics. For him, it was (and still is) all about the show, about distracting the public from reality. It was obvious that Mr. Trump had no real affinity for the working-class people whose votes he was chasing. Nothing in his life suggested that his heart was with struggling workers and farmers. It wasn’t impossible to know that he wasn’t the skilled businessman he professed to be. His bankruptcies and shady business practices and discrimination against Black tenants were no secret.

The debates took us nowhere nearer the realities about arguably the most disastrous president in our history. They became simply another tool in his arsenal.

The party conventions, also vestigial organs of a political system that no longer exists, are close to being done away with, if not for the reasons they should be. There’s no reason not to throw the presidential debates on the trash heap of useless (at best) rituals that are no help in our making such a fateful decision.


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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 14:42:07 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

What total bullshit.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:06:13 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 14:42:07 2020.

Well, you wouldn't expect her to say "I'm afraid Biden has senile dementia and I don't want him to take the risk of debates," would you? :)

PS. Senile dementia doesn't come on that fast. He held his own at the prior debates. He wasn't great, but he doesn't have to be.



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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 15:09:44 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:06:13 2020.

"I'm Dementia Joe, and I forgot this message!"

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 15:13:51 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

BTW, I've been saying this the whole time. Biden's handlers will NOT let him talk in a live, unscripted debate. It's a train wreck (on topic!) waiting to happen!!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:06:13 2020.

And I remember him saying weird stuff for years. Do you not remember “foot in mouth Joe?” It’s just that in 2008, he was 65, and no one could credibly accuse him of being senile at that age.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:19:39 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 15:14:38 2020.

He's probably gotten slightly worse since 2009. But meh.



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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:20:14 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 15:13:51 2020.

He didn't wreck the train in the primary debates.



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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Aug 3 15:37:48 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

I realized the other day that Trump is running against a ghost. No debates, no public real appearances that anyone reports on. Dude could be running against a Sofa and the election would feel the same. Except the Sofa wouldn't say stupid garbage and copy Trumps covid response while putting it down concurrently.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:07:35 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:20:14 2020.

Primaries ain't the election. And he wouldn't have gotten the nomination on the debates, but because Democrats were too scared of Bernie.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:10:12 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

They're scared of Biden being a disaster.

If he can't debate Trump, how can he face world leaders?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 3 16:17:29 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

What a CROCK of shit. F'in Democrats.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:18:44 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:10:12 2020.

Didn't you ever see the Wizard of Oz?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:21:08 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

IF DEMOCRATS THINK THAT SKIPPING THE DEBATES IS A WNNING STRATEGY, WHAT MUST THEY THINK OF JOE BIDEN?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 16:22:10 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 14:42:07 2020.

Indeed. Bring on the debates.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:23:29 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 14:42:07 2020.

Tell your boy to get in there and fight.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 16:37:27 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:07:35 2020.

I'm not saying he's a good debater. I'm only saying that senile dementia would have been visible, had it been present.


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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 16:39:02 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon Aug 3 16:17:29 2020.

Heh. If it bothers you that much, maybe it's a good strategy.



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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 16:42:50 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:23:29 2020.

WTF are you talking about?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:55:58 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 16:42:50 2020.

Biden is ducking and you are a major supporterof biden. Tell him to get in and debate

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:57:18 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:07:35 2020.

In a fair debate, Biden could beat Salaam with little difficulty.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:57:21 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by SLRT on Mon Aug 3 16:07:35 2020.

In a fair debate, Biden could beat Salaam with little difficulty.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 16:59:49 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:55:58 2020.

Why don’t you tell Trump to resign and die?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Dan on Mon Aug 3 17:08:37 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:19:39 2020.

And worse of all, what if his Depends gives way mid-debate?

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Aug 3 17:09:34 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:57:21 2020.

WTF

I AM NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE DUDE

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by https://salaamallah.com/ on Mon Aug 3 17:09:57 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:57:18 2020.

WTF

I AM NOT RUNNING FOR OFFICE DUDE

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Aug 3 17:41:07 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

I suspect this is a Trump plant.

Remember back in December?

Will Trump Debate a Democrat in 2020? He’s Not So Sure.

Trump considering skipping general election debates in 2020: report

And January?

Trump May Skip Debates, or Seek New Host, if Process Isn’t ‘Fair’

Trump campaign warns debate commission the president may not participate if process is not ‘fair’

And last June?

TRUMP WILL DEBATE BIDEN—AS LONG AS HE GETS HIS WAY

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 3 17:58:50 2020, in response to “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 12:57:51 2020.

Debates are worthless. They say what they want and when pressed say a lot of nothing. Anything more and they screwed up. Elections are based on PAC attack ads. That’s how our democracy works.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 17:58:53 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Dan on Mon Aug 3 17:08:37 2020.

Or he puts in Nancy's dentures by accident, or tries to wear Nadler's size ♾ pants as well.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 18:12:30 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Dan on Mon Aug 3 17:08:37 2020.

Don't they have extra-strong Depends for people in government? They have Congresscare, which is way more comprehensive than Zerocare . . .

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Aug 3 18:13:13 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:57:21 2020.

Sounds plausible.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 18:19:57 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 16:59:49 2020.

Because I want him here for 4 MORE YEARS.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 18:23:03 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 15:20:14 2020.

I mean, what questions of substance did he really say? Besides, the fix was in from the DNC from the beginning.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 18:23:43 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 16:37:27 2020.

Uh, paging Captain Obvious!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 18:29:25 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 16:21:08 2020.

They think..."not Trump", "Orange Man Bad 😡"

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 18:32:41 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 18:23:03 2020.

what questions of substance did he really say?

Ha. That question makes no sense. You must be suffering from senile dementia too. :)


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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 3 18:49:51 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 16:59:49 2020.

That’s the best idea I’ve heard all day!!!!!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 19:30:42 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Train Dude on Mon Aug 3 18:19:57 2020.

I want him here for four more years IN PRISON.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 19:43:23 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (NY Times op-ed), posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 3 19:30:42 2020.

Cyrus Vance seems to be farther along at achieving that goal than people realized. A nice case of bank fraud is more substantive than falsifying corporate records and illegal campaign contributions.




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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 20:57:59 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by AlM on Mon Aug 3 18:32:41 2020.

I think not!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 21:00:15 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Easy on Mon Aug 3 17:58:50 2020.

Nah, let the American people see Biden in action,fending off the live questions, and sparring with Donny. We already hear and read PLENTY what Trump has to say,so let's see what Joe has to say as well!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 4 01:06:57 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 21:00:15 2020.

Well, Biden already threatened to take someone's "AR-14" away and was not very factual about what was done to combat "N1H1" flu . . . I'm fully expecting him to refer to the current "pandemic" as "the COVID-18 pandemic" or something.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Aug 4 03:25:01 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Easy on Mon Aug 3 17:58:50 2020.

The debate between Trump and Biden would be, as Joe Rogan put it, like a boxing match between Mike Tyson and a toddler.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 4 06:00:38 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Aug 3 17:41:07 2020.

PWNED!!!

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Aug 4 07:43:14 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 21:00:15 2020.

Unfortunately "fending off the live questions" is itself not even necessary for debate anymore. It's harder to debate in the primaries when you had to fight everyone else for speaking time, but in a 1-on-1 presidential debate, it seems to me that the only "on the fly" thinking you have to do is quickly determine which of your pre-prepared speeches most correlates to the question being asked, and then just give it, and nobody really seems to expect any more (though Trump is a possible exception to this rule).

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Aug 4 08:15:06 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 4 06:00:38 2020.

son of nadler speaks

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 4 08:18:30 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Aug 4 07:43:14 2020.

You can't have senile dementia to such a degree that you can't remember your pre-prepared speeches. Right wingers assert that Biden does.

If the right wingers are in fact correct, there aren't going to be any debates.





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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by AlM on Tue Aug 4 08:20:29 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Aug 3 20:57:59 2020.

OK, but you put a nonsensical statement into writing. If you can do that without being senile, then Biden can make nonsensical statements orally without being senile.




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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Aug 4 10:06:35 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by Olog-hai on Tue Aug 4 01:06:57 2020.

BFD. At least he can pronounce his country’s name.

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Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed)

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Aug 4 10:20:21 2020, in response to Re: “Let’s Scrap the Presidential Debates” (Beobachter Slimes op-ed), posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Aug 4 06:00:38 2020.

No, not really. Look at your shitty little brown source.

Jewish journalist resigns claiming 'bullying' at New York Times
Op-ed writer Bari Weiss says colleagues called her a 'Nazi' and complained she was 'writing about Jews again'

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