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| 72 Years Ago Today (1453847) | |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:08:28 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. A real American would not debate this topic. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:11:44 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:08:28 2017. Heh.The church I went to this morning did a petition in memory of the atomic blasts (and they don't usually do liberal petitions). It would have raised your blood pressure considerably. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:18:32 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:11:44 2017. you went to church this morning?I almost bumped the Sunday Morning AlM thread to see what you ate and drank today on a Sunday morning. Do you think the petition was local or came from as high up as the Vatican? I suspect some of these political petitions aren't thought up by local priests. But it goes to show you I'm right about the Church trying to purge conservatives from the pews. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:25:17 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:18:32 2017. I think the petition was local.You don't understand the Catholic Church. Even the conservatives priests don't like the idea of atomic weapons. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:28:39 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:25:17 2017. I understand.But bringing it up today is political and an insult to those who fought in World War Two and the victims of Japanese imperialism. I might go to church tonight just for a laugh. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 13:33:13 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:08:28 2017. Why not? |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 6 13:35:00 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:28:39 2017. What is the Church's take on the Rape of Nanjing and the appropriate level of force to definitively end a government that promulgated that and other atrocities? |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 13:55:47 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 6 13:35:00 2017. PWN3D! |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Aug 6 14:07:47 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:11:44 2017. Enough people have died in the name of religion that no church has the right to moralize about war. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:10:24 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. The city was swept away in the blink of an eyeNo it wasn't. Not with a 15-kiloton yield and just 1.7% of the fissile material reacting. About five square miles out of 45 square miles (the areas of the central, southern, eastern and western wards) was hit with the blast. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:11:01 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Aug 6 14:07:47 2017. More died in the name of state atheism, aka communism. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Aug 6 14:13:35 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. No debate. 500,000 American lives were saved. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 14:13:49 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 13:55:47 2017. Why?There is evil in many places at many times. Do you have the right to harm innocent people to squash some of that evil? That's an incredibly complicated question on which everyone is entitled to their opinion. If Japanese evil in China justified the atomic bombs, then why doesn't the western world have a moral obligation to squash similarly evil regimes today? Or, say, in the 1990s when the Rwanda genocide was occurring? |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 14:14:58 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Aug 6 14:07:47 2017. Everyone has the right to moralize about war. Even you. Everyone also has the right to disagree with the moralizing. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:15:05 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:08:28 2017. What do you mean by "debate"?Enough people don't know the facts, these days. Would they have preferred the Japanese to fight to the death (State Shinto promoted a jihad-like fanaticism), thus really creating a bloodbath? Little Boy and Fat Man saved countless lives and made Hirohito realize that he wasn't a god. Don't know how many people understand what the current prime minister Abe Shinzo is about, though. He's a member of a group that wants to re-establish State Shinto, thus sending things back to the way they were before 1945. Should Naruhito become emperor, they'll set him up as god-king too. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:18:08 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by R2ChinaTown on Sun Aug 6 14:13:35 2017. Never mind 71.8 million Japanese lives. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Aug 6 14:27:38 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. There's no debate. If the bomb hadn't been used the Allies would have had to invade Japan and that would have been enormously expensive in material and human lives. I read somewhere that the war in Japan alone would have taken at least 2 years to complete. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:28:08 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 13:28:39 2017. Find yourself a conservative church. (That is, unless you don't want to hear the truth about abortion.) |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 14:29:27 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Aug 6 14:27:38 2017. It would have meant the necessary death of the Shintō religion too. |
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12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Sun Aug 6 14:30:45 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. Here's an article from The Atlantic magazine from December 1, 1946 discussing what would have happened had the bombs not been dropped.https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/376238/ |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 14:39:26 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. Thank you President Truman for sparing my late father and uncles the absolute horror of having to invade the Japanese mainland. |
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Re: 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 15:00:46 2017, in response to 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Aug 6 14:30:45 2017. Link without Google AMP BS |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 15:02:07 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 14:39:26 2017. GOD BLESS PRESIDENT TRUMAN! |
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Re: 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Aug 6 15:34:35 2017, in response to Re: 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 15:00:46 2017. Thanks. Popular opinion of the time was to end it as soon as possible. Surely some fatigue had permeated popular opinion after the German surrender some months earlier.Still, it's sad that this is what it took to rattle sense into their mindset. Shows what power propaganda can have over people. That's something we really need to be vigilant about these days. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Aug 6 16:01:16 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. If there is to be debates about Hiroshima there should also be debates about the traditional carpet bombing of civilian cities such as Dresden. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Aug 6 16:01:18 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. If there is to be debates about Hiroshima there should also be debates about the traditional carpet bombing of civilian cities such as Dresden. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Aug 6 16:01:18 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. If there is to be debates about Hiroshima there should also be debates about the traditional carpet bombing of civilian cities such as Dresden. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 16:19:00 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 15:02:07 2017. Absolutely! My uncle was drafted in 1945 after Germany had surrendered but before Japan did. My poor grandmother was beside herself with worry over her youngest child. While my uncle was in basic training Japan surrendered. My mother came home from work to find her mother, grandparents and aunts crying with joy. People were in the streets of Little Italy celebrating the end of the war.GOD BLESS PRESIDENT TRUMAN! GOD BLESS PRESIDENT TRUMAN! |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 16:31:40 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 16:19:00 2017. My grandfathers brother was gunned down in the Pacific.It's a shame that AlM's church felt the need to parrot an NYU/MSNBC/NYAlM Times talking point. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Aug 6 16:41:31 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Aug 6 16:01:16 2017. I think if the A-bomb was ready, they would've used it on Dresden or in Germany someplace. But I think it was a similar psychological tactic to hit a more civilian target. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 6 16:54:24 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Fred G on Sun Aug 6 16:41:31 2017. Hiroshima and Nagasaki were chosen to see how much destruction would result from the A-bombs. Both cities had been unscathed by Allied bombings. Tokyo was not chosen because it had been bombed many times and the Allies needed a government to negotiate a surrender. However, had these two bombings not persuaded the Imperial Cabinet, rumor had it that #3 would have been dropped on Tokyo |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 17:02:27 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Elkeeper on Sun Aug 6 16:54:24 2017. Nagasaki was not the first choice for the Fat Man bombing. The first choice was Kokura. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Aug 6 17:11:27 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 15:02:07 2017. IAWTP |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 17:14:29 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Sun Aug 6 17:11:27 2017. Yes. He is the only respectable president with a last name starting with "Trum." |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Chicagomotorman on Sun Aug 6 17:25:31 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. G-d bless Harry S Truman. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 18:16:14 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Jeff Rosen on Sun Aug 6 16:01:16 2017. There are.I think Hiroshima was a more reasonable decision than Dresden. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 18:33:21 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 6 17:02:27 2017. Poor weather spared Kokura. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 19:10:21 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Chicagomotorman on Sun Aug 6 17:25:31 2017. Well, for that anyway. He was too scared of "starting a Third World War" to finish the job in Korea, sadly. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 19:11:58 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Dan on Sun Aug 6 18:33:21 2017. They kept their small granary. |
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Re: 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today) |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 19:18:18 2017, in response to 12/1/46 Article from The Atlantic (Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by Mitch45 on Sun Aug 6 14:30:45 2017. The faith in the UN was utterly misplaced.Otherwise, Dr. Compton got it right. The firebombings were deadlier and messier than the A-bombs. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 6 20:11:44 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 14:13:49 2017. You made up a question and answered it.You didn't answer mine. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 20:31:14 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:11:44 2017. Hey AlM, I went to 5:30 pm Mass.I figured my church would say the same that yours did during petitions, about this topic. And I was right. We prayed for victims. So I'm guessing the message is something centralized that all churches were told to mention. Needless to say, I put nothing in the collection basket. My grandfather's brother was killed in the Pacific. I'm angrier today than ever at the church. They are trying to purge real human beings from the pews(and collection baskets). |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 20:33:11 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 18:16:14 2017. You have to kill civilians so the women don't give birth to future soldiers and so the men already alive can't take arms. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 21:00:48 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by SLRT on Sun Aug 6 20:11:44 2017. You didn't ask me a question. And I don't know the answer to your question to LuchAAA. I suspect there is no official answer, just different opinions from different bishops. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 21:06:33 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 21:00:48 2017. AlM, thanks for posting about your church petitioning this subject.It made me go to church to confirm my belief, that the Church is a Leftist organization. I was only going because I want to stand against secular society but now the Church has driven me off. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 21:13:41 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Aug 6 21:06:33 2017. the Church is a Leftist organizationEven many very right wing priests are very pacifist. Many conservative priests were against the invasion of Iraq, even while acknowledging that Saddam was a fiend. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Aug 6 22:53:41 2017, in response to 72 Years Ago Today, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 6 12:16:10 2017. We had to squash the Japs like the bugs they were! At least the Krauts knew it was over. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 6 22:55:49 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Aug 6 22:53:41 2017. At least the Krauts knew it was overThey knew it in 1944. That's why they planned to go underground back then. Something like that does not merely disappear. |
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Re: 72 Years Ago Today |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Aug 6 23:21:43 2017, in response to Re: 72 Years Ago Today, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 6 13:11:44 2017. Mine too |
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