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| Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! (1345695) | |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 13 23:29:23 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sat Feb 13 23:28:27 2016. How do you know he's flat broke? Flat broke people don't own large ranchhouses. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Feb 13 23:29:55 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sat Feb 13 18:35:42 2016. Stop confuse Bingbong with facts. In addition to being a physician and member of SCOTUS, she knows more about finance and accounting than any Big Four CPA. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 13 23:31:08 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sat Feb 13 18:35:42 2016. If he owes more on the ranch than its worth why hasn't the bank taken it yet? |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 04:55:05 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 13 23:31:08 2016. Because he is current on his mortgage payments? You cannot foreclose on someone who has been paying their mortgage timely just because the property is now worth less than the amount of the mortgage. This entire line of question is absurd because nobody knows his financials. That is why the Magistrate asked for a financial affidavit. Even if I was cash poor I would still find a way to have an attorney or CPA help me prepare it because the consequences of preparing it incorrectly are too great. The Magistrate Judge will review the affidavit, conduct the appropriate inquiry and then will render a decision. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 04:56:40 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 04:55:05 2016. Actually, FWIW, that was happening everywhere back in 2007 and 2008. It was known as "underwater." Check it. :) |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 05:10:16 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 04:56:40 2016. People were underwater and stopped making payments. It was the latter that prompted foreclosure proceedings not the former. Banks were making it difficult to approve "short sales" and with no equity in the property with a traditional sale, people realized it would be better to save the money they were paying on their mortgage (which usually included tax escrow for the clients I dealt with) versus throwing money at a property they could no longer afford due to some setback. If I was paying $5,000 a month in mortgage payments, for every year that I stalled a foreclosure sale I was pocketing $60,000. If my $700,000 house is now worth $500,000 and I borrowed when banks were regularly giving 90% and higher loans, chances are in the near future its value is not getting close to what I owe. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 05:36:29 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 05:10:16 2016. What we saw upstate is that banks started foreclosures when the property was underwater even if payments were current. These were largely resold mortgages to the likes of Bear-Stearns and others that shouldn't have bought them in the first place. We were one of the Bear-Stearns mortgage sales and didn't matter that we were current and weren't underwater at all. Shitheads freaked out and decided to go after everybody anyway. The story that you heard was fable. At least as far as upstate New York. May have been different elsewhere perhaps. Good news is that in the end, we fucked 'em hard. :)The REAL problem though was that the "packages of mortgages" sold to investors by the Bear-Sterns of the world were shit, and they made things a whole lot worse all around. If anyone was underwater, it was the clueless Wall Street houses that bought crap without even bothering with the least amount of due diligence before they screwed their investors. And nobody went to jail over it. :( |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 07:12:43 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 13 23:29:23 2016. Flat broke people don't own large ranchhouses.Lulz. They can and they do. Get into a financial crunch, take out a second mortgage or a home equity loan. Then for some reason the value of the property drops. Think back a few years when real estate values in the west and southwest plummeted. Stop embarrassing yourself. You keep digging a deeper well. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 07:15:22 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 04:56:40 2016. You may want to repeat this to Bingbong, who clearly lives in a different world than the rest of us. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 10:16:27 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 07:12:43 2016. Wrong. My statement holds. Since his terrort stndoff he has been unable to function as a business. Word is he sold off his herd at that point, since he could do so without leaving the property. That was two years ago. Where has the money to keep every loan current coming from?I smell a whole lot of festering bullshit on this one. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 11:01:26 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 10:16:27 2016. That's you you're smelling. How do you know Bundy is current on his loans...did you have a conversation with his bankers? |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 11:23:44 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 11:01:26 2016. Th fact that he retained that ranch. The fact that he hasn't been arrested until last week. Had action been taken against him, he would have had to appear in court to file motions agai st such, since he's so broke that he cannot afford a lawyer to do so on his behalf.If he was in any sort of bankruptcy proceeding, he would have to make a personal appearance in court. Upon which time he would have been arrested. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 11:59:02 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 11:23:44 2016. How do you know he owns the ranch? You're making assumptions without benefit of knowledge. For example, in Oregon, even if you file bankruptcy you can keep up to 160 acres of land. Why do you think the judge ordered him to provide a financial affidavit? Now if Bundy was stupid enough to request a PD when he has the assets to pay an attorney, then he deserves to be told to pay it himself. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:10:04 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 11:59:02 2016. Given there's no mention in any of the news surrounding him? Foreclosures are public record, yunno. The ranch is not in Oregon. I know the judge ordered the affadavit because she doesn't believe him. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 12:12:40 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 11:59:02 2016. You do realize, don't you, that near-desert land in Nevada isn't very valuable? Bundy's biggest asset is his cattle. And I doubt he has a mortgage on his cattle at this point. His failure to pay BLM fees makes his cattle seizeable (even though the federal government has not seized them because of threats of violence if they do), which means any mortgage would have been foreclosed after the first court order won by the BLM.So based on a bit of googling, I would think the chances are very good that he owns 500 to 1,000 head of unmortgaged cattle, which is real money and could pay for a lot of lawyer's fees. Maybe his accountant will find a way to make the cattle disappear. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 12:15:31 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:10:04 2016. You know the Magistrate Judge personally and what was going through her mind? Cool! I hate to burst your bubble, but for some Magistrates unless it is clear cut they ask. It is not a matter of believing or not, but just being sure. A Law School professor of mine who I still keep in contact with is a retired Federal Magistrate Judge so picked his brain about what he and his colleagues did in these situations. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:29:13 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 12:12:40 2016. IIRC, there was a report that were sold shortly after the terrorists stepped down two years ago. Having mismanaged his own land with overgrazing, and unable to use the adjacent Federal land at focus WRT deadbeated fees.... |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:31:07 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 12:15:31 2016. Her action makes it clear. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 12:47:25 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:31:07 2016. All her actions prove is that it is not a clear case of him being indigent or not and she wants more thorough documentation |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:54:08 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 12:47:25 2016. Which should tell everyone there's somethng suspect here. We'll all fnd out soon what,s what. |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 12:59:11 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 12:47:25 2016. Which of course makes total sense. If someone is believed to own 160 acres of land, even if crappy land, and many hundreds of head of cattle, a claim of indigency most definitely needs to be backed up by proof. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 13:04:48 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 12:54:08 2016. No it shouldn't. What it should tell everyone is that the Magistrate is not willing to waste taxpayer money and wants to be absolutely sure when it is not a clear cut case in either direction. If it is found that he is $1 over the cutoff that doesn't mean his claim was suspect. I would not be surprised if he had a lot of creditors including the Government and that will determine whether he truly is indigent. You have to factor in liabilities to determine if someone qualifies for assigned counsel. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 13:14:00 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by mtk52983 on Sun Feb 14 13:04:48 2016. Hmm. For simplicity, say the government has a claim against you for $1 million, but they can't collect on it by seizing your cattle (also worth $1 million - ignore the value of the ranch) because you have threatened to murder any law enforcement agent who tries to go through with a seizure, does that make you indigent or worth $1 million? |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 15:08:05 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 13:14:00 2016. Technically, as they have a lien against him, he would be i dignt as the lien would be satified upon liquidation. His net worth is after liquidation, payment of creditors of which the government is one. So yes, he would qualify as there re other criminal charges against him. Had he not threatened and terrorized the government when they came to impound assets, he would walk away a free man. But he had to play yeehadist. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 16:58:45 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 12:59:11 2016. Why bother with proff? Justice Bingbong has already determined Bundy is not indigent so off with his head! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 17:02:14 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 14 12:12:40 2016. All speculative. The Magistrate ordered a financial affidavit to prove Bundy is indigent. Any assumption that Bundy is or is not indigent is just a WAG at this point...not that this stops Bingbong from already determining he is lying. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 17:04:24 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 17:02:14 2016. There's plenty to wonder about there.... It doesn't add up. Unless you have no concept of math, which is a rampant trait in the RW. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 17:46:55 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 17:04:24 2016. Lulz. Bingbong's MO: "Ready, Shoot, Aim". |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 17:50:42 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 17:46:55 2016. Hardly. OTOH, you remnd me of CNN back in the day.....just shoot! We'll worry about the retraction later. Meanwhile the bodies of those harmed pile up.....we'll ignore that inconvenient little fact. |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 22:06:33 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 17:50:42 2016. Which has what to do with whether or not Bundy is entitled to a PD? |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 14 22:13:07 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 22:06:33 2016. Nothing beyond your mouthing off in a defense position....of a known criminal. |
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Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Feb 14 22:19:33 2016, in response to Re: Cliven Bundy Arrested!, posted by Dave on Sun Feb 14 22:06:33 2016. You ARE aware that people are entitled to other opinions than yours? |
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