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| Re: George Zimmerman Shot (1287719) | |
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| (1288905) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 17 14:13:34 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 13:47:43 2015. I should spell my last name the same way it was spelled on my father's birth certificate: using Cyrillic letters.Indeed. In the Miroslav Satan example, his name is actually pronounced "Shah-tan". My Italian last name is also pronounced differently in Italy. In BILLBKLYN's world I am dishonoring my family for not insisting that it be pronounced the correct way here. Interestingly enough, when my mother still resided in NY, she chose a THIRD way to pronounce the last name because she liked it that way. |
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| (1288936) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 17 15:31:13 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 13:38:22 2015. Sure they were. I guess you don't know the story of how Sean Ferguson got his name? |
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| (1288966) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 17 16:55:23 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Dave on Sun May 17 12:17:02 2015. Yes. 3 of my 32 great great great grandparents were Jewish. I'm even descended from Frederick the Great's financier Daniel Itzig (as are thousands of other people, since he had 15 children). |
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| (1288984) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 17 18:43:31 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Dave on Sun May 17 15:31:13 2015. It's a joke. |
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| (1288992) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 19:21:11 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Sun May 17 18:43:31 2015. What is? |
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| (1288994) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Sun May 17 19:24:55 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 19:21:11 2015. The story of how Sean Ferguson got his name.Supposedly he forgot the name he was supposed to use, and said "schon vergessen." |
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| (1289069) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 17 22:23:35 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Sun May 17 16:55:23 2015. Gerson is a variation of the name Gershon, which is the more common spelling. Gershon was the eldest of the sons of Levi. |
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| (1289074) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Dave on Sun May 17 22:38:44 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Sun May 17 19:24:55 2015. "Schoen vergessen" is Yiddish for "I forgot already." |
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| (1289108) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:13:32 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 17 05:03:41 2015. Ok, first, last week, whatsherface insisted I watched/listened to some right wing talk show host whom I've never even HEARD of before, NOW the "Subchat Element" is telling me that my grandfather getting his surname misselled did not happen. It happened. It got corrected. BTW, this STILL happens today at the DMV and other official offices ALL the time. But OF COURSE ut couldn't have happened in the 1930s. |
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| (1289109) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:17:22 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 17 13:47:43 2015. You SHOULD!! That'll be dope!! I am WELL AWARE og the Slavic gender-surnames/ Like ski and ska, kov and kova, etc... Thank God I have a normal German last name!! LOL!!Is there something wrong with being a little bit traditionalist? I didn't think so. |
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| (1289112) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:26:03 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 14 06:23:38 2015. Nah, I'll pass... |
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| (1289113) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:27:44 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Tue May 12 09:10:54 2015. Thanks for the career advice! |
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| (1289114) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:28:58 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 16 21:58:45 2015. I didn't see it. I only saw Olog's list. Unless you meant the list of Israelis? |
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| (1289117) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 04:39:57 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:13:32 2015. NOW the "Subchat Element" is telling me that my grandfather getting his surname misselled did not happen. It happened.It did not happen. That's just what he told his relatives so as to hide from them that HE chose that spelling at either Ellis Island (especially if from Cyrillic) or back in the old country when they compiled the ship manifest. He probably had some good reason to want to spell it differently but blamed it on Ellis Island people so it wouldn't seem like he "dishonored" the family name. You may be surprised at what those good reasons may be. You now have a nice, fun research project. his STILL happens today at the DMV and other official offices ALL the time. DMVs don't go off manifests. DMV personnel are not assisted by teams of people fluent in the language of their customers. |
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| (1289119) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:51:16 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 04:39:57 2015. Really? Not fluent in English at the DMV? Those 400 pound slobs behind the counter STILL cannot spell anything right and they speak English!! You point out the error to them and it's like "You done tole me dat's how it spelt!" Of course, since you know how your OWN name is spelled, you know you didn't make a mistake but she is strill INSISTING that you did!Now, on to my grandfather... Did you ever think that MAYBE when the spelling error was discovered and it was brought to the proper authorities for attention, that they DID check it against the manifest. Ironically, his brother and sister who came with him still had the last names intact, so what does THAT tell you? And no, he didn't change the name. His parents and older brothers never moved out of Europe and they could read and they visited NY numerous times and vice verca and they would have known if he tweaked the spelling of the family name. No, my grandfather was not Russian so his surname wasn't Cyrillic. But stuff like this NEVER happens in Subchatland! AND, I know the history and story of his migration, Even went to Ellis Island and saw his name as well! |
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| (1289125) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 05:46:29 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:51:16 2015. You point out the error to themAt Ellis Island there were no errors to be pointed out. that they DID check it against the manifest. Ironically, his brother and sister who came with him still had the last names intact, so what does THAT tell you? What does that tell me? That your grandfather possibly had a criminal record (perhaps a minor one). He (or an associate) bribed an official in the old country to alter his name and had that name put on the manifest to match his forged ID card (an easy thing to do back then). Since there were no databases in those times, the INS people at Ellis Island would accept the old country's official documents at face value. Even went to Ellis Island and saw his name as well! Meaning that he legally (or illegally) changed his name in the old country. Start your research here. |
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| (1289129) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 07:03:02 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:17:22 2015. Of course you didn't think so. Tradition, for its own sake, is useless at best and dangerous at worst.P.S. I also have a German surname. That would seem to be obvious given my reference to the "Habsburg Emperor." |
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| (1289131) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 07:05:37 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon May 18 04:28:58 2015. Yes. The list of Israelis. Which proves that Olog-HITLER believes they are all communists. |
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| (1289132) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 07:26:17 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 07:03:02 2015. That would seem to be obvious given my reference to the "Habsburg Emperor."Under those circumstances, it could also have been Italian. |
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| (1289405) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:50:48 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 05:46:29 2015. I guess my grandfather was known as the Baby Bandit as he was still young when they came. I guess that's the reason for the name change.I should know better than to debate events from MY life with the Spectrum Squad on Subchat... |
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| (1289407) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:55:30 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 07:05:37 2015. My PERSONAL feeling is that it's a betrayal to your ancestors, especially your parents, by getting a fake name. |
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| (1289408) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:57:12 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 18 07:03:02 2015. Most traditions are good IMO. |
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| (1289417) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 19 01:18:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 18 07:26:17 2015. Or Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian) or Hungarian. |
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| (1289418) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 19 01:23:24 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:50:48 2015. Just because Smaz speculated incorrectly about your grandfather doesn't make it likely that his name was misspelled at Ellis Island.Anyway, he could have gotten it changed when he applied for citizenship. My father eliminated two unused middle names at that time. |
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| (1289426) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 02:06:06 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Tue May 19 01:23:24 2015. OK, to be fair, my grandfather never specified E.I. was the one who actually misspelled his name. He always said "they" misspelled it when he came to America and he went to Immigration to correct it. It was always assumed by him and my relatives that it was done on E.I., but in reality, who knows where it was misspelled?Even to this day, whenever I'm in a situation where my surname has to be written dow, even if I slowly and articulately spell it out, it will be misspelled 7 out of 10 times. |
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| (1289439) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 07:01:23 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:55:30 2015. So you feel that the people who Hebraized their names when moving to Israel were betraying their ancestors? LOL! If anything, they were honoring their ancestors by celebrating their true heritage! |
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| (1289440) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 07:01:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 00:57:12 2015. No. |
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| (1289441) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 07:05:59 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Tue May 19 01:18:41 2015. NO |
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| (1289451) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 19 08:19:45 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 07:05:59 2015. My employer has banned access to that site. :)So the mandate on surnames only was (or maybe only had to be) imposed in German speaking areas? |
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| (1289454) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 19 08:26:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 19 02:06:06 2015. Yes, there's a lot of that, especially with ei vs ie. |
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| (1289486) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 12:31:34 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Tue May 19 08:19:45 2015. 1. All the Jews living in the provinces are ordered, that all heads of households for their families, custodians for children in custody, all unwed young men, who are not under the power of their father or custody, must adopt a definite family name (Vorname) by January 1, 1788. Unwed young women shall take the name of their fathers, married women shall take the name of their husbands; therefore each and every person, w i t h o u t e x c e p t i o n are obliged to take a German surname and keep it for life. |
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| (1289492) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 12:49:28 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by AlM on Tue May 19 08:26:41 2015. I.E=Ellis Island. |
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| (1289773) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 20 19:51:45 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 19 07:01:41 2015. And how are they not? |
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| (1289804) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 21 01:18:43 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 20 19:51:45 2015. I'm supposed to list every tradition that's bad? That's impossible. But here are a few proud traditions of various cultures:Slavery Divine right of kings Treating wives as chattel Treating children as chattel Marital rape Slut-shaming Shotgun weddings Honor killings Human sacrifice Genital mutilation Capital punishment for theft Amputations for theft Burkhas Women's place being in the home Sexual harassment in the workplace Xenophobia generally Antisemitism specifically Racism specifically Sati Stoning adulterers Stoning in general |
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| (1289817) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 21 06:29:39 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 21 01:18:43 2015. Excellent post! |
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| (1289819) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 21 06:45:50 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 21 01:18:43 2015. Thank you. I had similar vague thoughts myself but didn't feel like making a list.I would add: Shunning Only marrying within your ethnic group (not 100% bad but certainly has negative aspects) Ban on social contact between adult men and women who are not members of the same family Marrying family members like first cousins |
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| (1289830) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu May 21 08:28:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 21 01:18:43 2015. Stoning in generalAgree with all except for this one. If it's good enough for the Torah then it's good enough for me. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 21:56:33 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 21 01:18:43 2015. You only listed BAD traditions. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 22 21:58:03 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 21:56:33 2015. Let's hear some good ones. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:01:41 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 21:56:33 2015. So what? Good traditions remain because they're good regardless of the fact that they're traditions. Bad traditions remain despite being bad. Tradition for its own sake is useless at best and horrible at worst. |
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| (1290173) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:01:44 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Fri May 22 21:58:03 2015. I'm watching the Ranger game. Too many to type. I'm sure you can think of them on your own. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 22 22:08:04 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:01:44 2015. I'm sure you can think of them on your own.Indeed, I can think of a few good ones but it was YOU and not me who defended tradition for tradition's sake. Spider-Pig made an exhaustive list showing why such an outlook is unacceptable and how it has disproportionately damaging consequences. He made his case. Prove him wrong. |
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| (1290188) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:35:09 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by SMAZ on Fri May 22 22:08:04 2015. All I said was there's nothing "bad" about being called a traditionalist.Hey, Mankind isn't perfect. In fact, most of them are STILL being practiced in the muslim world today. |
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| (1290189) | |
Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:36:03 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:01:41 2015. Well, I don't go through life lamenting about traditions. I couldn't care less to be honest |
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Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:47:33 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:36:03 2015. Except that you do. You admitted so in this thread. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:52:52 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:35:09 2015. And I pointed out why it was bad. The fact that the Muslim world is a good example of a "traditional" culture doesn't exactly help the case of tradition. |
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| (1290196) | |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:57:55 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:52:52 2015. but what's traditional in one culture isn't traditional in another. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:59:31 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 22:47:33 2015. Nah, I don't have a "status" card (although being Catholic can, but I wouldn't lower myself to cry victim) so I couldn't care less about both good and bad traditions. |
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Re: George Zimmerman Shot |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri May 22 23:02:47 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:35:09 2015. Hey, Mankind isn't perfect.Man is supposed to strive towards his own betterment, not stubbornly hold unto his known imperfections. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri May 22 23:03:33 2015, in response to Re: George Zimmerman Shot, posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri May 22 22:57:55 2015. So? Your statement was about tradition in general. |
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