|
|
| Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down (1246242) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
|
| (1246255) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Dave on Wed Dec 10 12:41:01 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. read an article today (forget where) talking about the breakup of OPEC because of low oil prices. |
|
|
| (1246268) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 10 14:24:30 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. Way overdue to send the Sauds packing and turn that country into the US Territory of Arabia. |
|
|
| (1246269) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 10 14:25:48 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. I said this weeks ago and I'm glad you agree.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1246274) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Wed Dec 10 14:31:18 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 10 14:24:30 2014. Yeah, that US territory of Iraq really worked out well. |
|
|
| (1246281) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 10 14:38:59 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Dec 10 14:24:30 2014. Way overdue to send the Sauds packing and turn that country into the US Territory of Arabia.Somehow one would suspect that a excise tax on Saudi oil would be far cheaper and effective at nursing the US oil industry than invading and occupying Saudi Arabia. |
|
|
| (1246322) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 16:35:34 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 10 14:38:59 2014. Oh, and what a party THAT would be...Could set women's rights back six centuries or so. |
|
|
| (1246323) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by ClearAspect on Wed Dec 10 16:42:11 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. Problem is it wont effect US Fracking Efforts for Natural Gas... the shale oil gas in Canada won't be either. |
|
|
| (1246324) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Dec 10 16:59:15 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. Saudi Arabia trying to stomp out the competition. Makes sense a pure business decision realizing oil producing arena is getting crowded. Hope this don't dissuade our country for oil exploration AND finding alternate sources. Not gonna lie my pocket is enjoying these lower gas prices :-D |
|
|
| (1246333) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 10 18:10:18 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. #1: Individual companies may have to go into Chapter 11 or even Chapter 7. But the oil, the rigs, and the techniques are still there and drilling will resume/increase the minute the price goes up again. |
|
|
| (1246350) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 18:51:40 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 10 18:10:18 2014. Which is why the Saudis will try to keep the price down until they achieve their goal or are convinced it's hopeless.I've heard the Chinese are buying up the cheap oil to expand their strategic reserves from 30 to as much as 90 days. For "commies" they certainly know how to deal with markets. |
|
|
| (1246352) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 18:52:34 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 10 14:25:48 2014. Guess so. |
|
|
| (1246389) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 10 22:09:35 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Dec 10 14:38:59 2014. We hardly import any Saudi oil. |
|
|
| (1246398) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Rockparkman on Wed Dec 10 23:15:04 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 10 22:09:35 2014. That's why the Saudis and their ISIS allies want to put the US oil boom out of business. Want to stop the global oil-terrorist alliance? Support non commodity alternative energy sources. Wind, solar, hydro, geothermal. If you can't write a futures contract. The energy is terror free.. Use the domestic oil as a bridge to a new era where oil won't be used as a fuel, |
|
|
| (1246411) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 11 03:21:05 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 18:51:40 2014. The Saudis could keep the price down long enough to put every small and mid-sized US oil company into bankruptcy. The US would happily buy cheap Saudi or equivalent oil while this is happening. Then the minute the Saudis raise the prices, big US oil companies whose income isn't all dependent on US oil production immediately reopen the North Dakota oil fields that they bought at the bankrupcty sales. The same happens in Canada. |
|
|
| (1246413) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 11 03:40:06 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Rockparkman on Wed Dec 10 23:15:04 2014. I think the Saudis revile ISIS like we do.Your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1246415) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 11 05:57:22 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 11 03:21:05 2014. Those fracking guys are already mortgaged to the hilt.Your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1246444) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:03:14 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 11 03:40:06 2014. Well, kinda. The Saudis are certainly outwardly supportive of our efforts. But the ISIL folks are pretty close to (but more extreme than) the Wahhabist stuff that's in vogue in Saudi Arabia. ISIL seeks to be a spiritual challenger to the Saudis' claim of authority over Islam by virtue of their holding Mecca and Medina while also replacing the House of Saud in a secular sense. Still, to this point ISIL has mostly attacked northern Iraq and many of those they've executed have been Shiite, so the Saudis aren't exactly displeased with that outcome to this point. I guess the only thing that can be said is that the Saudis are somewhat conflicted, and would probably rather ISIL go on killing Shiites until they get too big for their britches and have to be culled. |
|
|
| (1246448) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:09:32 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by ClearAspect on Wed Dec 10 16:42:11 2014. the shale oil gas in Canada won't be either.But it will. It has to. At something like $60/bbl the oil sands are barely turning a profit given how much of the oil is consumed to supply the energy to process and refine the tar sands to the point where something like crude oil can be extracted. If the Saudis drive prices below that point then what's the point of producing oil by those expensive means? They're not going to sell their oil for $65/bbl when the world price is hovering around $55/bbl. |
|
|
| (1246449) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:13:20 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 11 03:21:05 2014. Then the minute the Saudis raise the prices, big US oil companies whose income isn't all dependent on US oil production immediately reopen the North Dakota oil fields that they bought at the bankrupcty salesThat assumes they can get the credit to restart those operations. A few lenders are going to lose their shirts along with the energy companies if prices continue to decline. In the future those lenders, or the people who replace them, will likely be a lot more circumspect about the risks involved in attempting to take on an industry where one country can exercise such total control over the commodity price. It'll be a lot harder to prove a business case closes when your presentation has to include "assuming the Saudis don't crash the price of oil again" somewhere in the financials. |
|
|
| (1246458) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:35:03 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. Saudi's dropping oils prices nipped alternative oil extraction in the bud.Entertainingly this may yet come back to bite them in the ass. The Canadians *really* like all the revenue they've gotten out of the tar sands. But it's barely cost competitive at the current commodity price, because they consume so much of the crude they produce (as well as natural gas) in refining the tar sands. But if the energy source is non-fossil fuel then the inefficiency disappears and they can distribute more of their production outside the plant. A few years ago a number of nuclear power plant installations were being considered to provide process heat for tar sand refining. These could be CANDU or LWR designs, but Terrestrial Energy's Denatured Molten Salt Reactor combines small size, high output temperatures, and passive safety in a way existing designs do not. From the way Mr. LeBlanc of Terrestrial talks it sounds like they've been priming the tar sands extractors for something like this for years, and have a truck transportable 500MW thermal design ready to go. Whether they'll get something built and installed before the Tar Sands extraction dries up remains to be seen. They're helped by the fact that the reactors will be used for process heat and thus do not need accompanying turbines and generators. But if they do get it built and if MSRs pan out, then we'll face another nuclear genie being let out of the bottle, but this one should be a lot more benevolent. They may start operation on tar sands, but it's more than likely they'll quickly supplant the mines. If the Canadians can get the DMSR (or any other small modular, high temperature reactor design, be it LFTR, WAMSR, or some form of SmAHTR) into operation to keep the tar sands competitive then the Saudis' gamble is likely to backfire. There is no way they'll be able to compete with the efficiency of a low pressure, high temperature reactor producing electricity at a lower cost than coal and giving useful process heat and beneficial radioisotopes as byproducts. |
|
|
| (1246539) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 15:54:26 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:13:20 2014. Or, the U.S. Government, recognizing the market importance of breaking the OPEC monopoly, could guarantee the debt of the U.S. producers. Do you think Obama would allow that? |
|
|
| (1246542) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 11 16:08:14 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 15:54:26 2014. The outcry from the GOP would be fierce.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1246558) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 11 17:21:13 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 15:54:26 2014. Increase the Federal debt? Hahahaha. |
|
|
| (1246589) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 20:02:33 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by italianstallion on Thu Dec 11 17:21:13 2014. A guarantee in and of itself does not increase the debt. It's a matter of national security. Do you think the Saudis would worry about the other "energy sources" the gummint has thrown money at, like wind and solar, subsidies for the well-to-do to buy hybrids, and money for companies like Solyndra? |
|
|
| (1246593) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 20:35:29 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by WillD on Thu Dec 11 09:35:03 2014. I didn't quite understand everything you said, but it sounds encouraging. |
|
|
| (1246601) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Thu Dec 11 20:49:45 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 15:54:26 2014. No reason to. The valuable item is the oil. If a producer goes bankrupt, a more healthy company will by its leases at the bankruptcy sale. |
|
|
| (1246659) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 12 09:06:46 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AlM on Thu Dec 11 20:49:45 2014. But who is going to lend money to this "healthy" company to purchase those leases if they know the Saudis can demolish their business case at will? Even if the healthy company has the liquidity to pursue the drilling themselves can they make their business case close to their own satisfaction knowing they may face many years of the Saudis depressing the price of their commodity? I'd tend to think the answer to both questions is no, and we'll see a major draw-down in oil shale production if the Saudis continue to lower the price of crude. |
|
|
| (1246663) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by WillD on Fri Dec 12 09:55:09 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Thu Dec 11 20:35:29 2014. Yeah, sorry, graveyard shifts will do that to you.Suffice it to say oil, or at least petroleum transportation fuels, can be synthesized from carbon feedstocks, including coal, natural gas, and even carbon dioxide, so long as you have enough energy. One way to get that energy is to use a nuclear reactor. But light water reactors used now are expensive, dangerous, inefficient, and their waste heat is worthless once its done producing electricity. Green Freedom (from the link above) assumes gasoline price of around $4.60, because they limited themselves to utilizing existing reactor designs and the reactor ends up being most of the cost. Various Gen 4 reactors achieve greater safety, efficiency, and temperatures, but IMHO the molten salt reactors combine low pressure and high temperature and that makes them especially worth looking into because they can be used to both produce electrical energy and supply heat to synthfuel plants. There's a fairly wide variety of reactors possible, using Thorium, Uranium, or both for fuel. There are also differences in salt composition, moderators, and so on. A number of companies including Transpower, Terrestrial Energy, and FLiBe energy are all looking at different designs. Some of these can be designed efficiently as Small Modular Reactors which can be trucked into place, loaded with fuel, and operating in a relatively short time. SMRs lend themselves to mass production, particularly if they're a low pressure design and do not require a large containment dome. Of particular interest is Terrapower's DMSR reactor, partly because Dr. LeBlanc, who runs the company has indicated there was interest from the companies doing tar sands extraction prior to the Saudis cutting into their profits. With the decline in oil prices those oil companies should be looking for ways to get more oil to the market, and diverting oil from plant gas to the cracking tower by using nuclear energy to produce process heat for extraction and refining is a good way to go about it. But it's a bit of a double edged sword for the oil companies. If we can produce reactors on production lines for little more than the cost of an airliner then economics of Green Freedom above change drastically. With the nuke accounting for more than 50% of the cost, halving that cost could lead to it producing gasoline substitutes for less than $2.00 at the pump. It wouldn't be a gimmick or a monopolist push to drive out competition, it'd produce at below the world commodity price for 30 some odd years. And because it'd use atmospheric carbon dioxide that fuel would never have a carbon tax slapped on it. It'd be cheaper than sucking oil out of the ground and refining it and as green as you can get. And all that while it produces a gigawatt or two of electricity for around a tonne of Uranium. Finally, if we should manage to make something with the Thorium fuel cycle work (DMSR uses Uranium), such as FLiBe's liquid fluoride thorium reactor, then there are a lot of interesting byproducts. Technetium 99m and Bismuth 213 are potential medical applications. Plutonium 238 is another potential byproduct that NASA would like to use for deep space missions. These things are worth their weight in gold right now. |
|
|
| (1246679) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 12 11:14:58 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 12 09:06:46 2014. The government could buy the domestic crude to fill the Strategic Reserve. Remember that? Or are we so confident we won't have another monopoly oil crisis? |
|
|
| (1246681) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 12 11:19:02 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 12 11:14:58 2014. We have an alternate strategic reserve now that we didn't have then. It's called North Dakota. |
|
|
| (1246682) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 12 11:20:22 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by WillD on Fri Dec 12 09:55:09 2014. Those really sound like win-win propositions. Maybe the producers should talk to you before they do anything rash, like giving up.Thanks for the detailed explanation. |
|
|
| (1246755) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 12 16:43:24 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 12 11:19:02 2014. Not if it closes down. It takes time to start it back up. |
|
|
| (1248430) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Dec 19 13:56:01 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 11 16:08:14 2014. Fred, you are absolutely right!!!!! |
|
|
| (1248431) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 19 13:56:53 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Dec 19 13:56:01 2014. You got tired blood, Dan? |
|
|
| (1248432) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Dec 19 14:00:04 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 19 13:56:53 2014. No, but you get the stupid post of the day this Friday!!!! |
|
|
| (1248434) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 19 14:06:54 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Dec 19 14:00:04 2014. You get the stupid delayed reaction post for Dec 11-19. |
|
|
| (1248439) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by Gamera on Fri Dec 19 14:13:22 2014, in response to Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by Dan Lawrence on Fri Dec 19 14:00:04 2014. 
|
|
|
| (1249069) | |
Re: Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down |
|
|
Posted by kew gardens teleport on Sun Dec 21 11:54:18 2014, in response to Oil at $61/bbl - Top THREE Reasons Saudis are keeping price down, posted by SLRT on Wed Dec 10 12:19:33 2014. You missed fucking over Venezuela until it turns back into a banana republic. |
|
|