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| $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities (1190820) | |
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$15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 03:01:40 2014 A very interesting article on the repercussions. Of course, let's NOT do that so hard working people can collect food stamps, welfare and be a burden on the taxpayer instead of the "free market system." Either way, it's coming out of YOUR wallet so if you really believe in drowning big government in that bathtub, then you should be all in favor of paying a living wage. Here's how it works out ...Full article: http://www.timesunion.com/news/us/article/15-minimum-wage-permits-few-luxuries-in-US-cities-5525903.php Excerpt: SEATTLE (AP) — A $15 minimum wage like the one adopted in Seattle doesn't buy many luxuries in most American cities. Lattes, theater tickets and cable television will still be out of reach for most minimum-wage workers. But about $31,000 a year should be enough to pay the average rent for a shared one-bedroom apartment, plus utilities, health insurance, groceries and an inexpensive cellphone plan. Monday's vote by the Seattle City Council created the nation's highest minimum wage. The state minimum wage in Washington was already $9.32 an hour, the highest state wage in the U.S. Expatistan, a website that tracks the cost of living in cities around the world, says New York, San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Honolulu, Boston and Seattle are the most expensive U.S. cities overall, in that order. An Associated Press comparison of the cost of living in several other major U.S. cities shows a higher wage would make a difference in those places too, but it won't allow for many extras. --- Do check out what it REALLY costs to live, and well ... fuggem, right? You'll make up the difference in taxes instead and THEN some because an awful lot of richer people ain't gonna pay YOUR share of them. So looks like the right is presented with a real choice here. Put money in THEIR pocket, or pay it to that government. Choose. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014, in response to $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 03:01:40 2014. But if anyone can live comfortably doing a job that doesn't require skills don't we lose incentive to acquire skills? Why would anyone learn to weld or learn construction when they can live a similar lifestyle delivering pizza? |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 08:58:58 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. That's what I don't understand in this. They want to make the unskilled labor wage to similar levels of people that have skills. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:01:17 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. Skilled labor will still pay a lot more than $15 an hour, once the apprenticeship is over. This is bringing the lower tier of wages to a more realistic level.Your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:02:59 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:01:17 2014. But all the other wages will go up too, that's the point, making everything more expensive, so the guy making the minimum will not be any better off than now, even if the numbers changed. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:03:21 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 08:58:58 2014. Not really. Skilled tradesmen make more than $15 an hour.Your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:06:48 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:02:59 2014. Wages going up is a good thing. The buying power compensates for a bump in prices.Your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:06:48 2014. But the buying power of that same money buys less when all the wages go up, as pricing will go up with it. Minimum wage earners are consumers as well, and their "higher wage" will not buy more if everyone elses goes up, bringing up pricing. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:18:48 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 09:03:21 2014. Of course, but their wage will go up as unskilled labor wages gets closer to theirs. That in turn brings up pricing, and the low wagers won't be any better off than they are now even if the numbers they make change |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:27:41 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:02:59 2014. On the contrary. A wage is necessarily less than the economic value of the labour performed— that's how capitalism works. The remainder of that value goes to company owners and shareholders, most of whom belong to a parasitic rentier class. If all wages go up, it means a larger percentage of labour's value will be left in the hands of the people who earned it, which means they'll be better off for it.Increasing wages across the board will increase prices by an amount less than the increase in wages, resulting in a net gain of purchasing power and a more equitable distribution of wealth. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:27:45 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. If you can pay for rent and food and you have health care in a minimum wage job, why would you bother to qualify for higher-paying work?A question asked by the same people who believe that Lloyd Blankfein will quit his job as CEO of Goldman Sachs if he's only allowed to take home $52 million instead of $54 million. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:29:08 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014. No. An across-the-board wage increase cannot drive up prices by more than its own value unless wages are driven higher than the economic value of the labour performed (which is clearly not going to happen). |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:32:09 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 09:27:45 2014. Correction: The second line should have been:A question asked by the same people who believe that Lloyd Blankfein will quit his job as CEO of Goldman Sachs and go flip burgers for McDonalds if he's only allowed to take home $52 million instead of $54 million. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:37:06 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. Of course that's the real issue. Do we want a society where people no longer aspire for an education to get a better job? What the uber-liberals don't see is, if you pay the fry cook at Mickey D's $15 an hour it seems like no big deal. The cost of fries and a burger will go up a few cents. Then you have to raise the salary of the supervisor because he can't earn what his subordinates earn and then you have to raise the salary of the manager. Expand that to the entire economy and suddenly that $15 minimum wage is worth what the $7.75 minimum wage was worth in real buying power. They are back in the same hole.Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be the sole means of support for a family. Instead they were intended to help teens learn what a job was about while providing pocket money of help someone with some additional cash. What happens to the person driving the school bus for $15/hr. which requires training, skills and responsibility? What about his/her supervisor - are they all getting raises too? Instead of looking to pay people more for unskilled jobs, why aren't the liberals looking to get these people to upgrade their skills so they can move into some of those "shovel-ready" jobs that this president promised us? By the way - where are those shovel-ready jobs? |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:42:14 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014. Of course - not to mention that for those on welfare - we'll have to increase benefits so they can keep up with the rising price of everything else. But who cares - we'll just raise taxes. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:46:28 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014. And when their employers go out of business, there will be no "buying power" due to no money. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:47:18 2014, in response to $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 4 03:01:40 2014. Of course, let's NOT do that so hard working people can collect food stamps, welfare and be a burden on the taxpayer instead of the "free market system."False argument. There hasn't been a "free market system" here ever since the introduction of the "Great Society". |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:48:08 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:18:48 2014. The incentive to reinvest will be gone, and prices of goods produced will go up. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:48:55 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:37:06 2014. Instead of looking to pay people more for unskilled jobs, why aren't the liberals looking to get these people to upgrade their skills so they can move into some of those "shovel-ready" jobs that this president promised us?If they did that, they wouldn't be liberals. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 10:05:27 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:37:06 2014. Do we want a society where people no longer aspire for an education to get a better job?I don't know. I've always been meaning to ask you why you keep slashing support for education. What the uber-liberals don't see is, if you pay the fry cook at Mickey D's $15 an hour it seems like no big deal. The cost of fries and a burger will go up a few cents. Probably not even that. More like, my dividends will go down by one penny per century per share. Then you have to raise the salary of the supervisor because he can't earn what his subordinates earn and then you have to raise the salary of the manager. You say that like it's a bad thing. Expand that to the entire economy and suddenly that $15 minimum wage is worth what the $7.75 minimum wage was worth in real buying power. Nope. Overall, more money has gone to the people who earned it and less to the people who own the company. Even if the minimum wage sees no net increase in purchasing power, everyone else certainly will. Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be the sole means of support for a family. Instead they were intended to help teens learn what a job was about while providing pocket money of help someone with some additional cash. Tell that to the labour unions who fought and died to get a minimum wage so that they could earn enough to support their families. You know, for someone who gets a union pension, you're surprisingly anti-union. What happens to the person driving the school bus for $15/hr. which requires training, skills and responsibility? He gets a raise. What about his/her supervisor - are they all getting raises too? Why not? Instead of looking to pay people more for unskilled jobs, why aren't the liberals looking to get these people to upgrade their skills so they can move into some of those "shovel-ready" jobs that this president promised us? We are doing that. Of course, asking people to upgrade their skills doesn't work very well when your people make tuition unaffordable and your people wreck the economy, leaving the newly-skilled with nothing but minimum wage jobs (and six figures of student loan debt). The problem is that the bulk of all production in this country is taken by a parasitic rentier class— improving your skills just leaves you better equipped to fight over the crumbs that remain. Increasing the minimum wage (and all wages by extension) will force the 1% to throw a bone or two along with the crumbs. By the way - where are those shovel-ready jobs? Obama's one of your people. You'll have to ask him yourself. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 10:07:59 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:42:14 2014. Of course - not to mention that for those on welfare......the increased economic activity will finally make jobs available. I'm afraid your own welfare might stay flat, though. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 10:14:05 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:48:55 2014. OK, back to basics.Define "liberal." Define "conservative." Or shut up. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 10:28:11 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. Bcause welding and advanced carpentry do pay better than $15/hr. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 10:31:19 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 09:48:08 2014. Meanwhile, the person with minimum wage will be ale to get a roof over their head. Which is all that should be expected. Read the OP. there's no allowance for luxury here. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 11:04:56 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014. We've seen prices going up steadily without the wage increases you're blaming price increases on. Improved buying power for anyone who works is a big plus to the individual and to the economy.your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 11:06:30 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 09:17:35 2014. We've seen prices going up steadily without the wage increases that you're blaming price increases on. Improved buying power for anyone who works is a big plus to the individual and to the economy. Wages keeping abreast of inflation is a good economy and doesn't mean prices of goods will increase exponentially.your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:00:59 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 10:28:11 2014. Of course, but as their salaries get downgraded by those lower/no skill jobs getting more, their salaries will go up making "welding and advanced carpentry" also more expensive, and as pricing goes up, so does everything else, and the now few dollars more low jobs can only buy the same goods/services as they did before. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:03:35 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 11:04:56 2014. I haven't blamed all price increases on labor increases. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 12:05:11 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:00:59 2014. Minimum wage workers aren't going to be in the market or luxuries to begin with. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:06:12 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 12:05:11 2014. Who said luxuries? Everything goes up. They are consumers too. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 12:14:44 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:06:12 2014. They're the same types that deny that rising fuel prices affect retail prices. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 12:16:55 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:06:12 2014. Ahem. If you haven't noticed, "everything" went up in price so the 1%ers could maintain their ROI despite low to no demand. Which BTW, goes against the "rules" of supply and demand.It's long about time for wages to catchup. This isn't going to produce an inflationary spiral. When work is attractive, as n providing for one's needs, the economy benefits. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Jun 4 12:20:44 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Easy on Wed Jun 4 08:50:03 2014. i used to do construction |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Jun 4 12:21:53 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:42:14 2014. boooooooooooo |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 12:22:29 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 12:14:44 2014. Conservatives? |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Jun 4 12:22:41 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 10:14:05 2014. lol |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 12:24:18 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Jun 4 12:22:41 2014. He can't do it.I've got that post saved in a little box next to the post form on SubChat so I can copy/paste it every time he tries to dodge. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Wed Jun 4 12:30:03 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 12:24:18 2014. nope !you are right |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 12:39:07 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Wed Jun 4 12:03:35 2014. No but my point is that they've increased rapidly and quite a bit without wage increases. The long term effect has been quite a haircut for everyone who works wages.your pal, Fred |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Jun 4 12:43:55 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Fred G on Wed Jun 4 12:39:07 2014. Given what a paycheck gets you these days, that haircut's a luxury. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Wed Jun 4 13:44:11 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 09:37:06 2014. Do we want a society where people no longer aspire for an education to get a better job?Read the Bell Curve, and you'll discover that throwing all sorts excuses about education isn't going to magically fix the bottom of society. There are people who simply aren't intelligent enough to get secure better employment. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:02:51 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 12:24:18 2014. You would.... you nerdy anal OCD freak! |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 14:03:43 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:02:51 2014. You poor soul. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:13:56 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 14:03:43 2014. Haha!!!! You took my phrase!!! LMAO! |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 14:29:25 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:13:56 2014. His brain can't keep up. Turning everything towards the opposite means one can't be consistent. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 14:37:18 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 14:29:25 2014. OK, maybe you'd like to take a stab at the questions, then?1. Define "liberal." 2. Define "conservative." 3. When did the trait of skin with limited pigmentation first appear in the Americas and why did it appear at that time? 4. Describe exactly what form of government you would endorse. In more detail than "small." As in, name a few government programs and/or activities that you support. 5. What do customer service associates have to do with Godwin? |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 14:37:22 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:13:56 2014. It's called an ironic echo. I should have remembered that you're a concrete thinker (and possibly autistic) and dumbed it down as far as I could for you. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 15:27:40 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 4 14:29:25 2014. Hysterical....and he believes I take anything he posts seriously!!! |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 16:19:55 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by Nilet on Wed Jun 4 10:07:59 2014. I'm not on welfare, you little prick. |
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Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 4 16:22:27 2014, in response to Re: $15 minimum wage permits few luxuries in US cities, posted by gp38/r42 chris on Wed Jun 4 14:02:51 2014. Slam-dunk |
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