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| Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! (1190196) | |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Jun 2 12:17:18 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jun 2 12:10:41 2014. ER treatment is expensive. If one allows a small problem to grow to the point where one lands in an ER, tat problem will coat more to treat. For example.....High blood pressure can be treated in a doctors office, medical home or outpatient clinic at very low cost. Left untreated, that condition causes heart attacks. Heart attacks land you in the ER., with a six figure bill. Pretty simple and obvious. You never got the memo? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 12:39:37 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 10:35:59 2014. On the other hand, the five people released from Guantanamo have no connection to Al Qaeda of any sort,No connection to al Quaeda? Are you having reading comprehension difficulties? I'll repost my earlier information: Mullah Mohammad Fazl (Taliban army chief of staff): Fazl is “wanted by the UN for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiites.” Fazl “was associated with terrorist groups currently opposing U.S. and Coalition forces including al Qaeda, Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), and an Anti-Coalition Militia group known as Harakat-i-Inqilab-i-Islami.” In addition to being one of the Taliban’s most experienced military commanders, Fazl worked closely with a top al Qaeda commander named Abdul Hadi al Iraqi, who headed al Qaeda’s main fighting unit in Afghanistan prior to 9/11 and is currently detained at Guantanamo. Mullah Norullah Noori (senior Taliban military commander): Like Fazl, Noori is “wanted by the United Nations (UN) for possible war crimes including the murder of thousands of Shiite Muslims.” Beginning in the mid-1990s, Noori “fought alongside al Qaeda as a Taliban military general, against the Northern alliance.” He continued to work closely with al Qaeda in the years that followed. Abdul Haq Wasiq (Taliban deputy minister of intelligence): Wasiq arranged for al Qaeda members to provide crucial intelligence training prior to 9/11. The training was headed by Hamza Zubayr, an al Qaeda instructor who was killed during the same September 2002 raid that netted Ramzi Binalshibh, the point man for the 9/11 operation. Wasiq “was central to the Taliban's efforts to form alliances with other Islamic fundamentalist groups to fight alongside the Taliban against U.S. and Coalition forces after the 11 September 2001 attacks,” according to a leaked JTF-GTMO threat assessment. Khairullah Khairkhwa (Taliban governor of the Herat province and former interior minister): Khairkhwa was the governor of Afghanistan’s westernmost province prior to 9/11. In that capacity, he executed sensitive missions for Mullah Omar, including helping to broker a secret deal with the Iranians. For much of the pre-9/11 period, Iran and the Taliban were bitter foes. But a Taliban delegation that included Kharikhwa helped secure Iran’s support for the Taliban’s efforts against the American-led coalition in late 2001. JTF-GTMO found that Khairkhwa was likely a major drug trafficker and deeply in bed with al Qaeda. He allegedly oversaw one of Osama bin Laden’s training facilities in Herat. Mohammed Nabi (senior Taliban figure and security official): Nabi “was a senior Taliban official who served in multiple leadership roles.” Nabi “had strong operational ties to Anti-Coalition Militia (ACM) groups including al Qaeda, the Taliban, the Haqqani Network, and the Hezb-e-Islami Gulbuddin (HIG), some of whom remain active in ACM activities.” Intelligence cited in the JTF-GTMO files indicates that Nabi held weekly meetings with al Qaeda operatives to coordinate attacks against U.S.-led forces. Since you're so convinced these 5 aren't terrorists may I suggest you go to Qatar and march on their behalf? See what that gets you. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 12:40:51 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by bingbong on Mon Jun 2 12:17:18 2014. Another example is that routine blood tests will show if a patient is in danger of becoming diabetic. If the patient knows he/she can adjust what he/she eats, lose weight, etc. and prevent diabetes. Much better that than the patient ending up in the ER needing an amputation due to complications from diabetes |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 2 12:44:37 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 12:39:37 2014. His incorrect point is that "without a trial, how can you say they were really associated with Al Qeada?". |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Jun 2 12:59:20 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 12:40:51 2014. Excellent point, thank you. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 14:41:43 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 2 12:44:37 2014. It takes a trial to prove association? LOL!! |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo; Bob Bergdahl wants more freed |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Jun 2 16:08:02 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo; Bob Bergdahl wants more freed, posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 2 04:31:05 2014. The commentary is which links he chooses as compared to ones that would refute what he posts. Very one sided, the same reason why I ignore other places that have an agenda to what's there. When it comes to "news" just call me Sergeant Joe Friday. :) |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:09:11 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 12:39:37 2014. It appears you're the one having reading comprehension difficulties. I'll repost my earlier information:Since you donated half a million dollars to fund Al Qaeda training camps in Pakistan, that means you can be detained without trial. On the other hand, the five people released from Guantanamo have no connection to Al Qaeda of any sort, so there is no basis under the NDAA for detaining them. How can you claim they're terrorists when you are one of Al Qaeda's biggest donors? If you think that statement is false, I'd like you to think once more about the purpose of a trial. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:10:09 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Terrapin Station on Mon Jun 2 12:44:37 2014. No, my point is that an unsubstantiated accusation is not grounds to lock someone up.Do you think that point is incorrect? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:10:11 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 14:41:43 2014. So how is their association proven? On what basis do you claim that they're associated with Al Qaeda? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 16:20:44 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:10:09 2014. People are locked up all the time before trial. Ever heard of remand without bail? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:11:21 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:10:11 2014. You'd have to ask the UN and the Joint Task Force Guantanamo that one. I have a hunch they know just a bit more about the detainees than you do. Ever stop to think about that? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:12:27 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 16:20:44 2014. Don't you know Nilet knows more about the law than every lawyer including the SCOTUS justices? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Jun 2 17:14:48 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:12:27 2014. That's not saying much for knowledge of the law. Some of those guys on SCOTUS ya gotta wonder about... |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 17:15:12 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:12:27 2014. I thought that was bingbong? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 18:06:50 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 16:20:44 2014. Remand without bail requires an arrest based on probable cause, it requires that the prosecutor convince a judge that no amount of bail is sufficient to guarantee the defendant's appearance by making an argument in open court where the defendant is afforded an opportunity to respond, and it's only valid for the limited duration pending trial, not "indefinitely." |
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| (1190482) | |
Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 18:06:53 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:12:27 2014. It would seem I do know more about the law than quite a few SCOTUS justices, and I definitely know more about the law than you. |
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| (1190483) | |
Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 18:06:55 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 17:11:21 2014. So you believe that the government should be allowed to lock up anyone for any reason without charges or trial or any oversight on the grounds that they know more about the people locked up than you do. Gotcha. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 19:02:02 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 18:06:55 2014. Not anyone, just those who are addressed by NDAA Sec. 1021. And SCOTUS has no problem with them being indefinitely detained, so why do you? Or are you being contrary just because you have nothing better to do in life? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 19:06:10 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 18:06:53 2014. 
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:18:52 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 19:02:02 2014. Not anyone, just those who are addressed by NDAA Sec. 1021.Which is everybody. And SCOTUS has no problem with them being indefinitely detained, so why do you? Try being "indefinitely detained" yourself and see how much you approve of it then. Or are you being contrary just because you have nothing better to do in life? No, it's because - unlike you - I oppose dictatorship and allowing the government to lock up anyone forever for any or no reason without any oversight as long as they declare you're "associated with Al Qaeda." When you grow up, you'll understand. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:19:17 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Dave on Mon Jun 2 19:06:10 2014. How do you manage to type with that straitjacket on? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:20:56 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 16:10:09 2014. How is substantiated defined? Who decides on the definition? And who decides whether the situation meets the definition? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:23:56 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:20:56 2014. "Beyond a reasonable doubt," the legislature (restricted by the constitution), and a jury. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:25:57 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jun 2 17:15:12 2014. IAWTP |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:28:41 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:23:56 2014. You can't have a trial every time you pick someone up. You need time to prepare first. You need time on the court schedule. Etc. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:31:18 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:28:41 2014. You can't have a trial every time you pick someone up.If you want to put them in prison, you have to. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:32:59 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 19:31:18 2014. Says who? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 2 21:54:17 2014, in response to Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by bklynsubwaybob on Sun Jun 1 20:12:49 2014. My take on this whole thing: Bergdahl becomes disillusioned with our presence over there. He deserts his post, leaving all of his equipment behind. He seeks out the Taliban and gets taken prisoner. We fall for the BS that he's in failing health. We release 5 terrorists in exchange for a deserter, whose plans to seek asylum with the Taliban apparently backfired.Am I correct, or am I missing something? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 21:58:08 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Jun 2 19:32:59 2014. Says who?James Madison, the House, the Senate, and three fourths of the states. In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 2 22:08:49 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 21:58:08 2014. I don't think the Bill of Rights applies to enemy combatants.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 2 22:16:29 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by Elkeeper on Mon Jun 2 21:54:17 2014. We should have let the traitorous shit rot. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 22:20:05 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Fred G on Mon Jun 2 22:08:49 2014. The people imprisoned in Guantanamo aren't enemy combatants; they're civilians accused of plotting or committing violent crimes. ("Terrorism" is a motivation, not a crime itself per se.)To be an "enemy combatant" requires a war (a real war; the "War On Terror" doesn't count), it requires that they be fighting on behalf of the foreign power on the other side of the war, and it requires that they be released when the war ends. It also requires that captured enemy combatants be treated humanely, not be interrogated or tortured, and that a mechanism be in place for challenging their status as combatants. While there is an ongoing war of sorts in Afghanistan, most to all of the people imprisoned in Guantanamo were not fighting for whatever passes for its government; they're civilians being held on suspicion of criminal activity. Obama has stated his intention to end the war in Afghanistan but has not stated any intention to close Guantanamo and release the supposed prisoners of war when he does. No challenge process exists for Guantanamo prisoners (in fact, there's essentially no oversight at all) and torture is commonly practiced there. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 2 22:30:04 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 22:20:05 2014. This is ridiculous. It's not 1945 anymore. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 22:39:49 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jun 2 22:30:04 2014. Precisely. The Guantanamo prisoners aren't soldiers; they're civilians who have been accused of a crime that the state feels it doesn't have to bother proving before locking them away forever. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 3 00:06:29 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 22:39:49 2014. They're not civilians. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 00:07:24 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Mon Jun 2 22:39:49 2014. Here you go again. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:31:32 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 3 00:06:29 2014. So what do you call farmers and taxi drivers? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:31:35 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 00:07:24 2014. Well forgive me for thinking dictatorship is a bad thing, your majesty. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 00:36:31 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:31:35 2014. What dictatorship? You're letting liberal hysteria cloud your thinking once again. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:45:41 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 00:36:31 2014. So you believe the government should be allowed to lock up anyone forever with no charges or trial and no oversight? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 3 00:47:37 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:31:32 2014. These men were captured on the battlefield and were armed. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 3 00:59:27 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:45:41 2014. Some day, that law will be used to get conservatives into the treatment they need. And delightfully, they're in FAVOR of it! :) |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:04:19 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 3 00:47:37 2014. No, they weren't. Many of them were kidnapped by random thugs and sold to the US for a bounty, because the US paid for each captured "terrorist" and didn't bother double checking the word of some random Afghani (or Uzbek) with an obvious ulterior motive.Still more were grabbed off the street for highly dubious reasons, such as a taxi driver who once took some big-name member of Al Qaeda or Taliban as a fare (without actually knowing who the guy was). Yet more were "arrested" in America or Europe nowhere near any conceivable battlefield. Many of them have been declared innocent of any wrongdoing; the government admits they were random innocent people, but refuses to release them either because no country will accept them or on the grounds that while there was never any justification for imprisoning them in the first place, it's too dangerous to let them go because if they were released, they might want to take highly justified revenge against the country that spent the last decade torturing them. In theory, a few of them might have been captured in combat, but why would you take the government's word on it at this point? Of course, even if they were captured on the battlefield, then Guantanamo is still illegal; the only difference would be that it would be illegal under the Geneva Conventions rather than the Constitution. Torture is always wrong, whether it be an alleged criminal or a prisoner of war. And if they were prisoners of war, then we'd be obliged to release them at the end of said war. While Obama plans to withdraw from Afghanistan at the end of this year (supposedly), I really don't see him releasing everyone from Guantanamo when we do. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:10:32 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 3 00:59:27 2014. You know, the fact that they're OK with Obama wielding that power proves that they don't really think Obama is a liberal. Or that they believe all liberals are so inherently good and trustworthy that someone they consider extremely liberal can be handed such extreme power and be trusted to use it only for the benefit of the country. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 01:21:47 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 00:45:41 2014. They're terrorist scum. Perhaps if they chose a different path in life, the US wouldn't have to come in and kick their asses. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 3 01:24:39 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:10:32 2014. Nah ... ;) |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:27:48 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 01:21:47 2014. So you believe the government should be allowed to lock up anyone forever with no charges or trial and no oversight? |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 3 01:39:55 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Prisoners From Gitmo!, posted by rkba on Tue Jun 3 01:21:47 2014. They'll be wishing for a more hawkish USA when more terrorists hit, and closer to home for them. |
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Re: Obama Frees Five Political Prisoners From Gitmo! |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Jun 3 01:42:57 2014, in response to Re: Obama Frees Five Top Terrorists From Gitmo!, posted by Olog-hai on Tue Jun 3 01:39:55 2014. The most recent terrorist attack to make the news was Elliott Rodgers in Santa Barbara. Does that mean America needs to invade America? |
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