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| Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage (1138338) | |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 15:01:45 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 14:40:12 2013. Why would he have to marry two gays?Because some of the service members will be gay and may want to be married? It seems like a pretty reasonable requirement to me. |
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| (1138853) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 15:28:57 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 15:01:45 2013. No. A Roman Catholic chaplain only has to marry two people who adhere to the Roman Catholic faith. Therefore not two Jews. Similarly, not two gays, because their request most definitely indicates they do not adhere to the Roman Catholic faith. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Dec 22 15:35:22 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 15:28:57 2013. Plus the military is not going to force a Roman Catholic priest to marry 2 gays. |
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| (1138877) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 22 17:02:17 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by streetcarman1 on Sun Dec 22 15:35:22 2013. If not the military, or police, look for the courts to make something happen in that area. |
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| (1138879) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:06:00 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 15:28:57 2013. That sounds fine under normal circumstances, but I don't know why the US government would employ people that refuse to perform all expected duties. So if Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and other clergy refuse to marry gays, how are gays supposed to get married while in the military? Will they subcontract it out to the local Anglicans? |
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| (1138884) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 17:19:44 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:06:00 2013. That sounds fine under normal circumstances, but I don't know why the US government would employ people that refuse to perform all expected duties. So if Catholics, Baptists, Muslims and other clergy refuse to marry gays, how are gays supposed to get married while in the military? Will they subcontract it out to the local Anglicans?Nothing has changed. No chaplain has ever been expected to marry people who didn't adhere to the chaplain's religion. If you are gay and in the armed services and want to be married by a chaplain, you will have to pick a chaplain whose religion recognizes gay marriage. |
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| (1138885) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:31:37 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 17:19:44 2013. Nothing has changed.The whole world has changed! Maybe the time for clergy to be employed by the military to perform religious and other non-military functions has passed. |
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| (1138899) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 18:21:37 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:31:37 2013. That would take an Act of Congress that has not yet been passed, and isn't being proposed. |
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| (1138901) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 22 18:25:06 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by bingbong on Sun Dec 22 14:35:42 2013. Which is curiously ALL the Pope had to say about it and little more. Nothing's changed otherwise. |
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| (1138904) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 22 18:26:30 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:06:00 2013. Unitarian chaplain possibly. There's always somebody available no matter what your faith in the military. |
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| (1138910) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:32:22 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 12:57:33 2013. It's called a deep strike.You don't go for the edges. You strike deep and hard and take out the command and control center of the anti-equality crowd and debilitate them. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:35:14 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 13:30:44 2013. So wouldn't be hypocritical for a devout Catholic to support gay marriage?Catholics priests don't marry Jews either. By your idiotic logic, wouldn't it be hypocritical for a devout Catholic to support Jews? |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:43:09 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 17:06:00 2013. You are confused.Performing a wedding, like Mass is a sacramental duty not a counseling one. Does the military require military rabbis to perform Communion? Or Wiccan chaplains to perform baptisms? |
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| (1138919) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:45:09 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Dec 22 18:26:30 2013. Indeed.there have already been same-sex weddings performed on military bases by chaplains whose denominations recognize them. |
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| (1138923) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 18:51:07 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:43:09 2013. Performing a wedding, like Mass is a sacramental duty not a counseling one.I'd imagine that very few Catholic weddings are not also legally recognized by the US government. And along with that come certain rights. Baptisms and communion are completely religious. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sun Dec 22 19:05:01 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 18:51:07 2013. No one has a right to be married by any particular minister or priest or rabbi of any particular faith. |
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| (1138933) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 19:09:55 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 18:51:07 2013. recognition by the government has nothing to with religious weddings.People have been getting gay-married in church in States where it's not recognized. Same with polygamy within Mormonism or Islam. Certain Protestant military chaplains had been performing same-sex weddings outside of military circles well before the demise of DADT and DOMA. There was nothing the military could do to stop it. They could not prohibit a minister from performing certain religious ceremonies just because she/he is a military chaplain nor could they compel them to perform ceremonies and rites incompatible with their religion. |
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| (1138939) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Dec 22 19:26:43 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 18:51:07 2013. You still need a marriage license issued by local government.your pal, Fred |
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| (1138941) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 19:33:33 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 19:09:55 2013. Recognition by the government and outside of religion has everything to do with it. There's a reason that gays are petitioning for the right to marry and not the right to have communion. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 19:35:14 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by italianstallion on Sun Dec 22 19:05:01 2013. And I have no problem with that as long as they are not government employees. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by bingbong on Sun Dec 22 20:19:54 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Easy on Sun Dec 22 18:51:07 2013. Same-sex marriage is recognized as a civil marriage, which requires no chaplain to perform. The are some Protestant sects that recognize it as well, I'd bet the Army has a chaplain or two from those sects serving somewhere. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 21:24:49 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:35:14 2013. What does me being Jewish have to do with my question? |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 21:54:14 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 21:24:49 2013. He didn't say it had anything to do with your question. He could have said "Muslims" or "Unitarians" rather than "Jews" and the point would have been the same. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 21:58:24 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 21:54:14 2013. What point? |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 22 22:08:14 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Dec 22 02:52:47 2013. You don't understand the Church, then. |
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| (1138988) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Dec 22 22:14:26 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by chicagomotorman on Sun Dec 22 21:58:24 2013. That it's not hypocritical for a devout Catholic to support gay marriage, any more than it would be hypocritical for a devout Catholic to support a Jewish or Unitarian marriage.Neither of the latter is recognized by the Catholic Church as the holy sacrament of matrimony, any more than a gay marriage is. But that doesn't mean that a devout Catholic thinks a Jewish or Unitarian marriage is an abomination. |
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| (1138989) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 22 22:33:22 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 18:45:09 2013. Are there no secular marriages in the military? |
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| (1138992) | |
Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Dec 22 22:48:07 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Dec 22 22:33:22 2013. The federal government doesn't do marriage certificates.Servicemembers wishing to get civilly married do so in a city hall or county clerk office of their choosing. That's where my brother and sister-in-law (both of them servicemembers at the time) got married. If two servicemembers serving, in say Germany, wish to get civilly married there, they do it in accordance with those laws. Some places allow civil marriage by teleconferencing. I was present at such a wedding when I was in Bosnia. The bride was in Texas. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Dec 23 00:18:34 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sun Dec 22 13:19:33 2013. Your responsibilities are many. Your stress levels high. |
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Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 23 07:53:35 2013, in response to Re: Judge Strikes Down Utah's Ban on Same-Sex Marriage, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Dec 22 22:08:14 2013. IAWTP! |
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