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Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 21:41:03 2011

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This is a philosopher who is solidly on the left, too.

New York Times

LETTER FROM EUROPE

E.U. Elites Keep Power From the People

By JUDY DEMPSEY
Published: August 22, 2011
BERLIN — When the German philosopher Jürgen Habermas says something about Europe and his country, Germans take special note. As a passionate European with a big following in the United States, Mr. Habermas, 82, comments when he senses that things are going very wrong.

So when he recently delivered a speech in Berlin amid the continuing euro crisis, he captivated his audience. He accused the political elites of reneging on their responsibility to bring Europe to its citizens.

“The process of European integration, which has always taken place over the heads of the population, has now reached a dead end,” Mr. Habermas said at a forum hosted by the European Council on Foreign Relations. “It cannot go any further without switching from its usual administrative mode to one of greater public involvement.”

The political elites “are burying their heads in the sand,” he said, adding, “They are doggedly persisting with their elitist project and the disenfranchisement of the European population.”

Those who agree with Mr. Habermas often cite the behavior of José Manuel Barroso, president of the European Commission, the Union’s executive, and Herman Van Rompuy, president of the European Council, which represents the 27 member states.

During these past months, both have failed to explain to a wider public what is happening to Europe and the euro. When they give interviews, they tend to address an elitist audience. Neither reaches out to citizens. “I doubt if they ever thought of doing town-hall meetings,” said Pawel Swieboda, director of DemosEuropa, an independent research organization in Warsaw.

“They don’t bother to do such meetings because they don’t have to stand for election,” added Reinhard Bütikofer, a German and leader of the Greens in the European Parliament.


Mr. Barroso and Mr. Van Rompuy were chosen behind closed doors. Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, and Nicolas Sarkozy, the French president, who on European issues often skirt the broader public, had a powerful influence over who should run Brussels. They preferred weak leaders who would be beholden to them, analysts say.

In contrast, as an elected lawmaker, Mr. Bütikofer was last week conducting town-hall meetings in the north-eastern German state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania, where his party hopes to get elected to the regional Parliament next month.

Those who argue for more democracy in the European Union to give the leaders in Brussels real legitimacy and force them to justify their decisions publicly face two big hurdles.

The first is the determination of national Parliaments to hold on to what remains of their powers. As it is, two-thirds of legislation is approved in Brussels and then passed to the national Parliaments to nod through. No wonder that German lawmakers are so exercised about the euro crisis.

The plan, vaguely outlined by Mrs. Merkel and Mr. Sarkozy after they met in Paris last Tuesday, to introduce economic governance on the E.U. level would mean Brussels encroaching on Germany’s national budgets and tax systems. Such governance is a logical step toward more economic integration. But, ask lawmakers, where is the democratic accountability and transparency? Mr. Habermas says it does not exist.

The second hurdle is that more democracy would mean reopening the E.U. treaties, which, among many other things, set out how the leaderships in Brussels are chosen and how the institutions function.

“This is a big problem for legitimacy. If you want to seek more legitimacy through legitimate means, then that means amending the treaties,”
said Krzysztof Bledowski, a European expert and economist and council director of the Manufacturers Alliance, a lobby based in Arlington, Virginia, that keeps a close eye on developments in Europe.

But no E.U. leader wants to reopen the laboriously negotiated treaties.

The Union could at least be democratized in small ways. But, noted Mr. Swieboda, “the E.U. works on the basis of method, of processes. They take precedence over democracy.”


Momentous decisions like the introduction of the euro or enlargement are taken in tiny steps at first, making it difficult for opponents to garner enough public support at any given moment. But once the process has gathered steam, it becomes even harder to stop. Both the Commission and the member states always put forward the argument that a rupture would be too risky and too costly. Besides, in the end, everyone will benefit from closer integration.

It is true that the Union would not exist in its present form without the “méthode Monnet,” as it is sometimes called, after Jean Monnet, Europe’s founding father under whose guidance the first modest decisions about integrating the European coal and steel industry were taken in the early 1950s.

Step by inexorable step, this method led to a common market for all goods. But the same method was also applied when Greece joined the euro in 2001, despite warnings from economists and investors about Greece’s credentials, and later when Bulgaria and Romania joined the Union in 2008, despite warnings from judicial and security officials about the endemic corruption and trafficking in both countries. Their warnings went unheeded. The process could not be stopped.

Criticism of this kind of decision-making is not welcome, either.

“The status quo response is that because Europe is the answer, it should not be questioned,” Mr. Swieboda said. “If you question the Commission, for example, then you are considered a euro-skeptic.”


This approach has vindicated populist, euro-skeptic parties. Pro-Europeans call them anti-European. But the populist parties, increasingly pandered to by the mainstream right, have a point: the Union does not listen to its citizens.

“We are missing true European leaders,” said Andrea Römmele, a professor for communication in politics and civil society at the Hertie School of Governance in Berlin. “With so many national and European issues interlinked, there is a great need for Europe’s leaders to communicate to their publics and strengthen Europe.”

The euro crisis is the prime example of how leaders have failed to do just that. If and when Europe emerges from this latest crisis, proponents of more integration say the leadership in Brussels and in the capitals cannot continue as before. Unless the Union’s doors are fully opened to accountability and democracy, Europe will fall prey to populists.


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Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011, in response to Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 21:41:03 2011.

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Jürgen Habermas is Marxist. you'll cite anyone who agrees with your anti-eu paranoia.



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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 21:54:56 2011, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
Why is it that you don't look deeper into it, I'd like to know? You in Ron Paul mode, where any kind of tyranny is OK and can be reasoned with, or is this your strictly liberal side coming out? You blithely call it "paranoia" without proving to me that it's all it is. Of course, liberals never try to prove their side of anything; all must take it as doctrine and never question it. (No wonder you like the EU so much.)

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Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 22:01:45 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 21:54:56 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d
you're the one quoting a Marxist not me.


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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 22:04:46 2011, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 22:01:45 2011.

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you're the one quoting a Marxist not me

Even broken clocks can be right twice a day. Vladimir Bukovsky said the same things as Habermas five years ago. And hard as it may be to believe, there are Marxists that do believe in democracy and don't subscribe to Leninism.

And why are you evading my questions? That's the mark of a liberal, not a libertarian. Libertarians do like to debate.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 24 22:07:19 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 22:04:46 2011.

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fiogf49gjkf0d


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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 22:07:59 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 22:04:46 2011.

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i debate with people who a worth debating with...

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by The Silence on Wed Aug 24 22:40:33 2011, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

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and you will atack anyone who won't agree with you. this makes yoy better how?

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by The Silence on Wed Aug 24 22:59:59 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 22:07:59 2011.

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Which is unfortunite for you, as this is still a demcracy last time I checked, and everyone has a right to debate.

Just not at dinner.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 23:00:53 2011, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by The Silence on Wed Aug 24 22:40:33 2011.

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It only shows him to be a radical liberal. He can never be wrong . . . and nobody else can be right either.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 24 23:17:29 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 23:00:53 2011.

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Gee ... you're admitting that you're a radical liberal? LOL

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 10:53:45 2011, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

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Yes Dan, the US should join the EU.

Sieg Hiel, oppress them all my friend!

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 25 11:52:25 2011, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 10:53:45 2011.

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Yes Dan, the US should join the EU

Sure, and then we can do the same things to the Jews as they do in Amsterdam and Malmö, right? Never mind being ruled by a government that's a copy of the Soviet government, and be told that we're a "European people" in the same way that the USSR tried to create the "Soviet people".

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Aug 25 12:03:38 2011, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 10:53:45 2011.

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What are you blathering about???

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 12:52:05 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 25 11:52:25 2011.

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Interesting how many left-wing people are on here supporting White Imperialism then.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Aug 25 12:58:04 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 12:52:05 2011.

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What are you blathering about???

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Aug 25 12:58:37 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Aug 25 12:52:05 2011.

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What are you blathering about???

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 25 22:14:27 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Thu Aug 25 12:58:37 2011.

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Same stuff he always posts. Started as soon as he came back.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by dand124 on Thu Aug 25 22:16:33 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu Aug 25 22:14:27 2011.

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he never left.

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by dand124 on Thu Aug 25 22:33:23 2011, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by The Silence on Wed Aug 24 22:40:33 2011.

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i only attack crazy people.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by RockParkMan on Thu Aug 25 22:45:37 2011, in response to Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 21:41:03 2011.

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GRIND ENGLAND

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Aug 27 16:15:10 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by dand124 on Thu Aug 25 22:16:33 2011.

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He did for a while. Same handle. Same attitude.

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Aug 27 16:35:37 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Wed Aug 24 22:04:46 2011.

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Habermas is worse than just being a Marxist. He's single-handedly infested academia with Emperor's New Clothes codswallop. If only Foucault had done a better job of making mincemeat of him...

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Aug 27 16:37:45 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by RockParkMan on Thu Aug 25 22:45:37 2011.

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Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Euro crisis, I think we can all safely say: God bless America!

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Aug 27 20:04:01 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Dan Lawrence on Sat Aug 27 16:15:10 2011.

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When was this?

Promoting fascism, making fun of dictatorships and murder must really mess with the brain cells. Uh oh, there goes my 'attitude' again. Sieg Hiel!

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 20:35:14 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Sat Aug 27 20:04:01 2011.

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Promoting fascism, making fun of dictatorships and murder must really mess with the brain cells

I wouldn't accuse him of that. That kind of malice takes intelligence . . .

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by orange blossom special on Sat Aug 27 22:08:02 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 20:35:14 2011.

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I don't know who I'm accusing anymore, the three of those posters kinda blended together. Even the other one besides myself who wonders when I left.
maybe I've had to disappear here and there for a week...

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 27 22:12:32 2011, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by orange blossom special on Sat Aug 27 22:08:02 2011.

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I don't know who I'm accusing anymore, the three of those posters kinda blended together

It's groupthink. I know it's unnerving to see it in action, but pay it no mind.

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by dand124 on Thu Mar 22 20:05:58 2012, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

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here's the proof



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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 22 20:14:08 2012, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by dand124 on Thu Mar 22 20:05:58 2012.

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You really aren't well, are you? I already mentioned in the OP that Habermas is on the left (albeit not 100 percent Marxist and certainly not communist); but people like Reinhardt Bütikofer are not. Heck, you're further left than Habermas!

It's a good thing you don't live in my neighborhood, otherwise I'd catch you in my back yard or something (something you wouldn't keep up on for long since we have wild black bears living here) . . .

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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by dand124 on Thu Mar 22 20:24:12 2012, in response to Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 22 20:14:08 2012.

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You really aren't well, are you?

i'm a German agent here to annoy you and drive you nuts so you'll stop exposing our attempts to use the EU to control the world.

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Olog cites a Marxist

Posted by daNd124 on Sat Oct 5 23:04:12 2013, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d


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Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 5 23:07:15 2013, in response to Olog cites a Marxist, posted by daNd124 on Sat Oct 5 23:04:12 2013.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I am seriously waiting for you to become coherent.

And here I acknowledged a lefty was going against the EU. Didn't Trotsky go up against the USSR? Please make sense; please.

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Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people

Posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 27 20:18:39 2014, in response to Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by DAND124 on Wed Aug 24 21:50:48 2011.

fiogf49gjkf0d
just a reminder

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Re: Gentrification = Bourgeoisie push out the poor folks from their homes

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 27 20:46:24 2014, in response to Re: Olog is a communist!! Re: Jürgen Habermas: EU elites keep power from the people, posted by dand124 on Thu Feb 27 20:18:39 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Why do you want to remind people of when you're wrong?

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Re: Gentrification = Bourgeoisie push out the poor folks from their homes

Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Feb 27 20:55:29 2014, in response to Re: Gentrification = Bourgeoisie push out the poor folks from their homes, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 27 20:46:24 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Thanks for not putting letters such as o and e together in the word Bourgeoisie. On the other hand, I noticed you were able to put those little periods above the letter u in the word Jurgen which bothers me. A lot.

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Re: Gentrification = Bourgeoisie push out the poor folks from their homes

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 27 21:01:18 2014, in response to Re: Gentrification = Bourgeoisie push out the poor folks from their homes, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Feb 27 20:55:29 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Ah well. I do what I can for the Diacritical King.

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