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| Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? (1083359) | |
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| (1083485) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:27:06 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:26:06 2013. i'm not a huge fan of either Paul and i don't know why you would think otherwise. |
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| (1083486) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:29:49 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:10:43 2013. 1) It has everything. The Floriduh criminal case is over. Their law failed the victim. Now everyone should fail Floriduh for tourism dollars.2) As I said, their law failed the victim. Too many of you RWers praised the law as it failed to provide justice. That's just demented. |
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| (1083487) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:30:31 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:21:51 2013. Yes, because duty to retreat only applies where retreat is possible and the defender knows he can do so safely. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:31:10 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:29:49 2013. 2) As I said, their law failed the victim. Too many of you RWers praised the law as it failed to provide justice. That's just demented.how do you think the law should be written? |
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| (1083492) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:33:18 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:21:51 2013. Whatever happened to calling the police? Is everyone supposed to become a vigilante, taking the law into their own hands now that a killer is out on the street (and in the drive thru according to non-credible cable tv sources?). That's absolute lawlessness. |
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| (1083493) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jul 16 19:33:44 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jul 16 18:12:56 2013. Why don't you saddle up an Atlas rocket??? |
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| (1083495) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:35:00 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:29:49 2013. 1. If the law failed the victim, then the jury verdict is irrelevant because juries do not determine law.2. LOL! I'm a right-winger now. Apparently, anybody to the right of Lenin is a right winger to you. |
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| (1083497) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:36:07 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:33:18 2013. Whatever happened to calling the police?Zimmerman called the police. Is everyone supposed to become a vigilante self defense is not vigilantism. |
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| (1083498) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:36:28 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:33:18 2013. He did call the police! Are you not paying attention? |
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| (1083508) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:45:26 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:23:26 2013. It's still violence even if in self-defense. It's not disingenuous to characterize it as bodily harm. Zimmerman actually suffered very little bodily harm, yet he walked away from killing Mr Martin. There was insufficient threat to his life based on the actual injuries sustained. He claimed 25 blows to the head on concrete. He'd be out cold and Mr Martin alive that night had that been the case. Or is his skull that thick to survive that? Somehow I doubt that. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 16 19:45:37 2013, in response to Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jul 16 15:15:33 2013. I've been boycotting the mainland since 1978. I just don't like the fuckin place.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:50:59 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:45:26 2013. the degree of harm a person receives is not relevant with regards to a self defense claim. |
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| (1083513) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:51:52 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 19:45:26 2013. It's not disingenuous to characterize it as bodily harm.LOL! You are not paying attention. You are disingenuous for characterizing "great bodily harm" as being less than loss of life. You just have your opinion and the facts be damned, no matter how often we tell you otherwise with evidence and proff [sic]. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 19:52:03 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:36:07 2013. And what did the "police" tell him? |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:52:17 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:50:59 2013. Yes. It is about reasonable perception. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 19:52:28 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:36:28 2013. And he wasn't paying attention when they told him, "we don't need you to do that." |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:54:17 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 19:52:03 2013. that he didn't need to follow Martin, please not that he was already out of the car when they told him this and there is no evidence that he ignored them. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:55:28 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 19:52:28 2013. And he wasn't paying attention when they told him, "we don't need you to do that."there's no evidence that he didn't follow that suggestion. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by fwt9000 on Tue Jul 16 19:56:30 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 19:52:28 2013. That's not the same as saying "We don't WANT you to do that"Saying you don't need something does not preclude accepting it if offered. If they had said "Don't do that" or "We don't WANT you to do that" then it would have been clear |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:00:16 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:50:59 2013. Then why should we hold the police or the military to "proportional response" then? Let's just shoot anybody that looks at them wrong ... |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:04:49 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Fred G on Tue Jul 16 19:45:37 2013. 
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:05:51 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:54:17 2013. And yet, there he was ... yeah, I know it's not a crime, but many "unfortunate incidents" are the end result of stupid and not listening. This was another. :( |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:06:02 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:00:16 2013. Then why should we hold the police or the military to "proportional response"that's what the law requires but it is about the harm that is about to happen not about the harm that has already happened. |
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| (1083533) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:06:10 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:00:16 2013. What does that have to do with anything? |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:55:28 2013. I'd say that he didn't go home would amount to circumstantial at least. And FWIW, he wasn't "on duty" that night in the first place. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:05:51 2013. As he said, there is no evidence he didn't listen. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:07:38 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by fwt9000 on Tue Jul 16 19:56:30 2013. Ummm ... reparse your post, I'll wait. :) |
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| (1083537) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:08:25 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013. First, there is no evidence that he did not begin to return to the truck at that time and second, it had nothing to do with his being part of the neighborhood watch. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:12:26 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013. not going home is different than continuing pursuit. the altercation happened about 100 feet from Zimmerman's car, my guess is Martin thinking Zimmerman was up to no good didn't want to let him know where he lived and circled around thinking he'd be gone. |
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| (1083541) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:14:53 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:27:06 2013. They ARE the libertarians. Face it, it's long since become a "deviant" political "philosophy". |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:20:32 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:06:02 2013. Heh. I feel like I'm trying to grab an eel here. :)My problem with the Florida (and other states that went with the standard) is that there is defense from highly disproportionate force. If I come running after you with a baseball bat (choice of weapon in the boroughs) it's OK to shoot me? I've got a problem with that. And the major problem I have is that the outcome of what happened in Florida is you're going to see a LOT more people carrying guns "just in case" ... and when you have idiots with guns, bullets very often do NOT end up where they were intended to go. :( |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:20:47 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:14:53 2013. how does your statement contradict mine? |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:21:26 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:06:10 2013. You must be new here. :) |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:22:25 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:31:10 2013. 1) Police dispatch should issue orders not suggestion.2) Repeal "stand your ground". Restore traditional castle doctrine. 3) Pass new strict gun control in Floriduh. Restrict concealed carry to those requiring such for work and law enforcement professionals. 4) Mandate that neighborhood watch groups be unarmed and limit them to observation and calling in same. 5) Raise taxes and hire additional cops if crime is that rampant. Let the locals pay for it. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:24:04 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:30:31 2013. In this case, Zimmerman's retreat was called for and recommended by police dispatch. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:25:40 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:22:25 2013. even if all those were passed an incident like this could still happen, even if someone doesn't have a gone they could still grab a large rock and kill someone with it. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:26:55 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013. And there's no evidence that Elvis didn't go home in a UFO ... this is subchat court, bro ... Hon. Lo Vee presiding ... rocks float here. :) |
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| (1083559) | |
Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:26:58 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:20:32 2013. My problem with the Florida (and other states that went with the standard) is that there is defense from highly disproportionate force. If I come running after you with a baseball bat (choice of weapon in the boroughs) it's OK to shoot me? I've got a problem with that.A baseball bat is a weapon and can inflict great harm, so yes. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:27:26 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 19:35:00 2013. 10 That requires changing the law.2) Worshipping, supporting, enabling the idea of vigilantes is about as RW as it gets. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:27:48 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:08:25 2013. That was his justification for being there. It wasn't like he was in his room watching Judge Judy. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:28:31 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:12:26 2013. You and Pigs are reaching as hard as the others here for something that fits your argument. That's why I've got my potato gun out. :) |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:28:32 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:26:55 2013. And there's no evidence that Elvis didn't go home in a UFO ..yes there is. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:29:09 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:06:59 2013. He followed the young man. What part of ignoring their advice does that fall under? |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:29:40 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:24:04 2013. FALSE. There is no evidence that Zimmerman failed to heed the advice and there is evidence that he was subsequently pinned by Martin and unable to escape. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jul 16 20:30:21 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:26:58 2013. If someone came after me with a bat and I was carrying, I'd at least show him what a cool gun I had. If that didn't work, he'd get a bullet. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:30:24 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:26:55 2013. We are discussing a case in an actual court with actual rules of evidence. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:31:02 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:27:26 2013. 2. LOL! If you say so. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:31:45 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 19:55:28 2013. Aside from the fact that he did exactly that and killed a child in the process. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jul 16 20:32:05 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jul 16 20:27:48 2013. Even if he hadn't been part of the neighborhood watch, he'd have been well within his rights to observe Martin. |
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Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again? |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jul 16 20:32:15 2013, in response to Re: Why Are We Boycotting Florida, again?, posted by bingbong on Tue Jul 16 20:29:09 2013. there's no evidence that he followed martin after being told not to. |
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