|
|
| Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident (1020366) | |
 |
|
| Home > OTChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
Page 3 of 5 |
||
|
| (1020768) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 14:24:21 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:08:04 2012. Fine opinions about the Second Amendment. I don't think you can get any Justice except Thomas to agree. |
|
|
| (1020771) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:36:18 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:17:29 2012. Wrong. It's under 200 million. ">See GSS, source for the statistic.Which is way more than is necessary. Gun owners are a minority of the population.This is a minority obsession which the majority has been paying for in actual money and lives, IIRC in numbers of lives exceeding the number of traffic fatalities these past few years. We did something about cars and drivers,with enhanced safety technologies and now it's time to do something about guns. |
|
|
| (1020773) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:40:02 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 14:24:21 2012. A decision on a national constitutional right to conceal and carry will be heard soon by the Court.Probably by next year. It will be another victory for individual freedom. Judge Posner wrote the lower court opinion in favor. This is at odds with a shameful ruling from the NY-based 2nd Circuit CoA. |
|
|
| (1020774) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:42:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:36:18 2012. Wrong. It's under 200 million. ">See GSS, source for the statistic.Fine accident rate of 0.0075% = close to zero |
|
|
| (1020777) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:48:58 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:42:10 2012. You're talking human lives. Are you fine with killing? |
|
|
| (1020779) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:52:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:48:58 2012. You're talking human lives. Are you fine with killing?let's ban the military so that there will be no more wars. |
|
|
| (1020782) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 15:00:17 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:40:02 2012. I agree it is very likely that the Court will say that there must be a reasonable method for a responsible citizen to possess a gun.I am only talking about limits on the breadth of that right and on the breadth of the types of guns allowed. Even Justice Scalia has mentioned that it would be quite appropriate for a school district to ban guns in a school. I doubt the "had a teacher been armed" argument will sway him. |
|
|
| (1020783) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 15:01:02 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:52:10 2012. That is NOT an answer. Neither of us is now in the military.I'm talking about your kids, your friends,your significant other. They are more likely to see harm from any gun you own now and keep in your home than some war-enemy. |
|
|
| (1020788) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:16:56 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 15:01:02 2012. My response is the kind of response to someone who says "are you fine with killing?" |
|
|
| (1020791) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:25:58 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 15:00:17 2012. Even Justice Scalia has mentioned that it would be quite appropriate for a school district to ban guns in a school.While landlords (the government in this case) have every right to ban firearms on their property (as long as it's not someone's home), that doesn't mean it's good public policy. I have never suggested that barring a teacher, principal or janitor from bringing a firearm to a school is unconstitutional. I've said that it's bad public policy. I wonder how many children in Newtown would still be alive today if even one of the adults had been armed. |
|
|
| (1020793) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 15:28:55 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:16:56 2012. It's a legitimate question to anyone possessing a gun in the home "for "self-defense"". |
|
|
| (1020795) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:35:52 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 15:28:55 2012. It's a legitimate question to anyone possessing a gun in the home "for "self-defense"".Nobody with a gun in their home is looking forward to ever killing anyone unless it's a last resort that hopefully will never be necessary. |
|
|
| (1020803) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 16:18:39 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:35:52 2012. Yet you'd tolerate an accident, i.e. your kid shooting someone while playing with the gun they found on the nightstand. |
|
|
| (1020808) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 16:40:25 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 15:25:58 2012. Just as many would have died, probably.The real question is how many would be alive if the shooter did not have a gun. If he was restricted to knives, say - - but we know the answer. Just last week, a killer slashed 20 kids in a school in China. All survived. |
|
|
| (1020815) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 16:53:36 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 10:58:43 2012. By your logic, this rock keeps tigers away. |
|
|
| (1020852) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 17:37:32 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 16:40:25 2012. The real question is how many would be alive if the shooter did not have a gun.Liberty has a price. When I was kid, I would ridicule the old farts who nostalgically commiserated how there was little to no crime in Italy "quando c'era Mussolini". We have enough laws to deal with criminal activity. Using appeals to emotion to roll back basic freedoms has never worked anywhere. |
|
|
| (1020861) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 18:52:54 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 17:37:32 2012. You may think we have enough laws, but they are obviously insufficient to prevent mass gun murders.I don't think emotions are being appealed to in this effort. It's logic - the harder it is to access guns not needed for self-defense or hunting, the fewer dead children there will be. Liberty may have a price, but the liberty to have fun with semi-automatics is a small price to pay for bodily safety. |
|
|
| (1020864) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 18:55:06 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 18:52:54 2012. I really don't think the founding fathers intended to enshrine the freedom to shoot off 30 bullets in rapid succession, reload in a few seconds, and repeat. I think they would have been very happy at the thought of 6 shots. |
|
|
| (1020871) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 19:02:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 18:55:06 2012. No they did not. Scalia himself agrees. |
|
|
| (1020878) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 19:19:07 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 18:52:54 2012. Public safety must be the first concern here. Second is the rights of those seeking freedom FROM guns. So we can ban weapons in schools, public buildings, place where people gather like theaters, malls, stadiums so all can enjoy these places without fear of gun violence.That will protect the public. Banning large capacity magazines and semi automatic assault weapons will do more to prevent more mass murders, especially if there's a buyback for all the guns and magazines out there already, followed by aggressive enforcement with stiff and strictly enforced criminal penalties.Liberty has a price.....ensuring there is liberty for all. 27 people have no liberty because of an unstable person with a semi automatic assault rifle. |
|
|
| (1020880) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by DanD124 on Tue Dec 18 19:25:05 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 18:55:06 2012. I really don't think the founding fathers intended to enshrine the freedom to shoot off 30 bullets in rapid succession, reload in a few seconds, and repeat. I think they would have been very happy at the thought of 6 shots.And they also weren’t thinking of the internet and would been happy with pamphlets and irregularly publish newspapers. |
|
|
| (1020883) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 19:19:07 2012. It just occurred to me that when President Bush pushed forward the Patriot Act, all you extremist liberals cited the oft-quoted Benjamin Franklin:It seems to me that's exactly what you are doing now. My how the winds have shifted. |
|
|
| (1020892) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 19:55:18 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. Excellent post! |
|
|
| (1020893) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 19:56:14 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. What essential liberty are you referring to? |
|
|
| (1020894) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Tue Dec 18 19:58:54 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. I did'nt read all the posts so if the issue was addressed up before, forgive me.Fundimental COMMON SENSE!.If you own guns, legal or otherwise & If you suspect that someone who lives with you has mental issues, you keep those weapons LOCKED UP!! Whats the issue in this situation? Ma Barker having all those legal firearms in the house with a son with "problems". I'll stick my neck out here & say If those guns were properly secured like all responsible gun owners are supposed to do (I hope), this might not have happened. Ok Ok so he could have gotten the weapon illegally on his own. But how much would it would have cost if the kid bought it on the internet on on the black market?? My guess,a lot & he may not have had the funds. I think thats a safe assumption But no, he had the opprtunity to access weapons thanks to his careless mother. If he went in with handguns alone, sure there would have been casualiies...but not as many. I think thats another safe assumption. And if assault weapons were not available to mother thanks to a restriction or God forbid a ban, that killing machine might not have been in the house of the careless mother living with the head case kid which gave him the ways & means to do the deed. Just a guess |
|
|
| (1020895) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 20:05:58 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. That is what the Patriot Act does as well, which in a very real way effecting all. You're pretty damn pleased with that.Banning assault rifles and large capacity magazines harms no one. In fact it will save lives. Remember, the second amendment was written with muskets in mind. There were no semi automatic assault rifles, nor large interchangeable clips in the 18th century. The context of a militia is equally important. The intent was to permit posses and militias to defend the states as there was no Federal standing army. It was NEVER about assembling a personal armory. |
|
|
| (1020899) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 20:16:11 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 19:56:14 2012. Not the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.A gun can put a very quick stop to that. |
|
|
| (1020906) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 18 20:28:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. Which is precisely why they should round up all the guns ... it's the "anti-terror" thing to do! :) |
|
|
| (1020917) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 20:42:27 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. Is it an essential liberty to own and use semi-automatics? Please cite chapter and verse in support of your thesis. |
|
|
| (1020926) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 20:54:27 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 20:16:11 2012. Arms are the only sure way to defend liberty. |
|
|
| (1020928) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 21:00:11 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 20:54:27 2012. Liberty against whom? It was true against a tyrannical monarchy in 1776. It is not true against a freely elected govt. today. And anyway firearms would be totally ineffective against tanks, mortars, missiles, bombers and drones deployed by the govt. |
|
|
| (1020929) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 21:01:08 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 21:00:11 2012. Asymmetrical warfare proves that wrong. |
|
|
| (1020947) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 21:27:33 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. Moderating gun ownership and use isn't the same as losing one's right to bear arms. This issue needs more discussion but the NRA red herring is hardly useful. I agree we don't want to kneejerk our way into losing our rights either.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1020951) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 21:33:05 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 21:27:33 2012. Actually, the NRA does want meaningful dialog. On the other hand, erosion takes a little at a time. |
|
|
| (1020953) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 18 21:34:34 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 20:54:27 2012. Uh yeah ... you and your little popgun ... against this ... sure. |
|
|
| (1020955) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 21:38:19 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 21:33:05 2012. Nobody is served by digging their heels in right now and of course this soon after the tragedy there's a lack of cool heads.your pal, Fred |
|
|
| (1020961) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 21:43:49 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 21:38:19 2012. That is obvious. The thing is that the focus is on assault weapons and the same level of horror can be accomplished with far less fire power. We need meaningful solutions and not, as you said, knee-jerk reactions. |
|
|
| (1020987) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 23:53:33 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Dec 18 21:01:08 2012. LOL! |
|
|
| (1020989) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 19 00:29:11 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:02:58 2012. 1. How many pamphlets, blogs, or (I assume handheld) signs have killed people?2. Would more than 140 characters have the potential for causing more harm? 3. That would certainly help refine some of the crap that passes for thought these days :-) 4. I thought we already have something like that. They are held in schools, under the topics of "English" and "Social Studies". |
|
|
| (1020990) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 19 00:35:13 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:19:36 2012. So paying money for applying for a gun license should be considered unconstitutional? |
|
|
| (1020995) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by rkba on Wed Dec 19 01:16:22 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 19 00:35:13 2012. Rights exist for all, not just those who can pay. |
|
|
| (1020996) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by rkba on Wed Dec 19 01:18:16 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 19 00:29:11 2012. In response to 1: 0, the same number of guns that have killed people. |
|
|
| (1021000) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 19 02:26:31 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Wed Dec 19 01:18:16 2012. OK, let me rephrase that then: how many pamphlets, blogs and (handheld) signs have been used to directly murder people? |
|
|
| (1021008) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 19 04:41:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 23:53:33 2012. Too ologesque? |
|
|
| (1021015) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 19 07:36:27 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 19:19:07 2012. Your right to freedom from guns (or from speech or religions you don't like for that matter) ends the moment you walk out of your house. |
|
|
| (1021017) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 19 07:40:18 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 18 19:32:28 2012. I keep reminding of that.It's why it's exactly in THESE moments when the enemies of freedom are most empowered to do damage, due to the emotions of the moment, that its defenders must speak out even if it's unpopular to do so. I'm a REAL Liberal. and a proud one at that. |
|
|
| (1021018) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 19 07:45:54 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Tue Dec 18 20:42:27 2012. I wax nostalgic for the 1994-2004 assault-weapons ban era when no mass murders with assault weapons happened on American soil. |
|
|
| (1021021) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 19 08:15:41 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 19:56:14 2012. No answer. |
|
|
| (1021023) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 19 08:16:36 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 19 07:40:18 2012. What essential liberty would be given up by allowing a maximum magazine of 6 cartridges? |
|
|
| (1021029) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
|
|
Posted by SMAZ on Wed Dec 19 08:29:38 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 19 08:16:36 2012. What essential liberty would be given up by allowing a maximum magazine of 6 cartridges?Criminals wouldn't follow such a law. It would be unilateral disarmament on the part of law-abiding citizens. The right to self-defense would be undermined. |
|
|
|
Page 3 of 5 |
||