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| Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident (1020366) | |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by FWT9000 on Mon Dec 17 21:08:49 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:02:43 2012. How about this 1927 school massacre in which 38 kids were killed. The perpetrator used dynamite and incendiary explosives. Controlling guns will not stop crazy or desperate people |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 21:24:59 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:45:06 2012. "...eroding our rights"So far, no one is calling for the repeal of the 2d ammandment. Guns will be able to be owned as long as this country exists. However with rights comes responsibilities. I would'nt call banning assult rifles an erosion of the right to protect yourself, family & property. A Glock or a Smith & Wesson would do fine for those needs. Making sure that anyone who wants a firearm has to meet basic requirements, like backround checks, family history, medications, & completion of a firearms training course in safety & use to me is basic commom sense. After all, to get a drivers license, you need education, training & proof that you know how to operate a motor vehicle. The same should apply if you want a gun. Im hearing that in some states, its easier to get a gun than a drivers license. To me, theres something wrong with that |
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| (1020563) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 21:38:02 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:45:06 2012. You mean like the Patriot Act?your pal, Fred |
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| (1020564) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 21:41:14 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:50:30 2012. My original point was that even if you could profile the next mass killer, it would be virtually impossible to prevent the killing, given our current laws.Ok, let me take it one step at a time. ...given our current laws Does this mean the laws should be changed? If so, in what direction? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 21:59:17 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 21:38:02 2012. That one was valid ... it was packaged in Muslims, so all good. :-\ |
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| (1020568) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:00:02 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 21:38:02 2012. I don't consider the Patriot Act to be a meaningless gesture and neither does the president, who has increased its scope, |
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| (1020569) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:01:48 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 21:41:14 2012. No! it means what it says. Given our current laws! I am not in favor of eroding personal freedoms for a false sense of security. |
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| (1020572) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 22:05:49 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:00:02 2012. It's resulted in a lot of security theater tho, such as the TSA for instance.your pal, Fred |
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| (1020574) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 22:08:42 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 22:05:49 2012. And finding out how to spell Train Dude's real name, then getting his home address, motorcycle club, his friends, his license plates and finally posting pictures of his house. He's even on the TSA list. Without any messy court orders to get it. As Martha Stewart would say, "it's a GOOD thing." :) |
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| (1020576) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 22:10:21 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:01:48 2012. Thanks for your support! :)
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| (1020577) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:10:32 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Mon Dec 17 22:05:49 2012. Well then, I suppose that we disagree about it. Your issue is with the current president since he ran originally on a pledge to abolish it and instead he's expanded its use. One of the things that he's done that I approve of. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Dec 17 22:40:59 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. Perhaps not.....however here's an idea that will help to make next time a little less likely....Require a waiting period and background check for each and every ammunition purchase. It would enable the latest information on each and every gun owner to come forward (a gun lasts, bullets don't...someone that showed as OK when they purchased the thing may not be so going forward) so as to protect the public from those who shouldn't have a gun to begin with. It's a second chance to catch illegal weapons. Law abiding gunowners will get their ammunition. Bullets have a shelf life and it isn't all that long. Control ammunition transactions and we'll be able to drown the NRA in Grover Norquist's bathtub before very long. It's all good. |
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| (1020584) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 22:42:41 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Mon Dec 17 22:40:59 2012. Sure hope he at least bleached that tub after Rand Paul went swimming in it ... volatile compounds and all ... :) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 17 22:48:06 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:01:48 2012. There is no personal freedom to possess assault weapons. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:00:09 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:49:31 2012. Is it eroding our rights to make gun ownership as difficult as car ownership?Not as long as we also make the free exercise of religion, the right to vote and all other enumerated rights as difficult as car ownership. Why only stop at the rights that you don't like? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 23:02:42 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 17 22:48:06 2012. I'm holding off for a low yield Uranium weapon myself. Even little boy will suffice. :) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:08:07 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 21:24:59 2012. family history,Really? So now an American citizen should forfeit basic individual rights because his brother or niece is a moron? After all, to get a drivers license, you need education, training & proof that you know how to operate a motor vehicle. The same should apply if you want a gun. Show me the part of the Constitution where it says that the right to keep and bear a driver's license shall not be infringed. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 23:12:22 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:00:09 2012. ray charles owned a number of cars |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 23:14:10 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:01:48 2012. Given our current laws! I am not in favor of eroding personal freedoms for a false sense of security.Would I therefore be correct that you do not favor changing our current laws? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 17 23:14:23 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:00:09 2012. The real analogy is free speech, warrantless searches, and all the rest of the Bill of Rights. They ALL have meaningful regulatory restrictions on them to protect society or to further other valid societal ends. The same should go for the 2d Amendment. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Dec 17 23:16:37 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:08:07 2012. We also have free speech, but I can't defame someone nor falsely call out "fire" in a crowded theater. We can't be searched without a warrant . . . except that we can. etc. etc. |
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| (1020604) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 23:43:28 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 23:14:10 2012. I think that what I said is pretty clear. If you need help with plain English, take a remedial course. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:01:53 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 18:45:40 2012. IMHO you could accomplish some of those goals (at least #1 and #4) with minimal government involvement by just requiring firearms owners to purchase insurance for the potential misuse of their cache. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:09:52 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 23:00:09 2012. None of those examples require any element of technology to be upheld and the Second Amendment does not guarantee your unfettered right to smokeless powder, large magazines, or any other firearm technology. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 01:53:30 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:09:52 2012. Time to get my milling machine and lathe running. |
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| (1020616) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:57:03 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 01:53:30 2012. Homemade or kit built cars are still regulated just like cars from any automaker, so why would a homemade gun be any different? |
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| (1020617) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 02:03:01 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:57:03 2012. What gun? :-) |
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| (1020618) | |
Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Dec 18 02:24:31 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 02:03:01 2012. That BiC pen barrel ... homemade Glock. :) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Dec 18 07:50:44 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:01:53 2012. IMHO you could accomplish some of those goals (at least #1 and #4) with minimal government involvement by just requiring firearms owners to purchase insurance for the potential misuse of their cache.Considering the analogy to vehicle ownership elsewhere in the thread, not a bad idea. The cost of firearm liability insurance would reduce the number of guns out there. Probably would not have prevented Friday, though. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 08:34:38 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 20:33:41 2012. You're not offering a serious objection. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 08:36:05 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:46:15 2012. Even Scalia won't let you own an antitank gun. Clarence Thomas might, but he won't get a majority for his position.So retrictions on the right to bear arms are a given. The only question is how much. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 08:57:03 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 23:43:28 2012. So why do you want to draw the line exactly where it is drawn now?Why do you agree that it it proper to ban machine guns, but do not feel that it is proper to ban semiautomatic guns that carry easily intercahangeable 30-cartridge magazines? Why do you agree that some states should require background checks and a waiting period, while others do not, when guns are so easily transportable across state lines? Why do you not feel that a few hours of mandatory education could dramatically reduce gun thefts? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 10:34:36 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:51:28 2012. So you just throw your hands up? That's disgusting, to not work to figure out how to, if not stop these, at least support law to reduce the potential carnage.Large capacity magazines have no place in the civilian environment. Same goes for semi-automatic assault rifles. If you can't bag a deer with bow or a single shot,, maybe you ought learn to hunt, practice at a range, safely away from the population, or give it up. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 10:55:23 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:10:32 2012. Okay... you support surveillance on citizens without a warrant or cause, as well as pointless searches and harassment of law abiding citizens at airports, yet you think that requiring a safety course prior to purchasing a lethal weapon more likely to cause an accident in the home than ever be used for "self-defense", limiting semi-automatic weapons and regulating ammunition sales as threats to "freedom".There is such a shitload of hypocrisy here and only 24 hours in today. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 10:58:43 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 22:01:48 2012. Mandating training, mandating safe handling of lethal weapons to prevent accidents and to protect them from theft (guns have high value on the blackmarket) and ENFORCING same (read: note to republicans:THAT TAKES $$$$) will help to reduce the number of these episodes.Norway strengthened its gun laws. Nothing close to Utoeya Island has happened there since. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Tue Dec 18 11:24:16 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 10:55:23 2012. He's a Narrow Gauge Republican, and to them anyone who does not believe the same is wrong. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 12:11:56 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Dec 18 07:50:44 2012. It's possible that the mother would be forced to budget a bit more carefully and might be less willing to purchase a high powered semiautomatic rifle in order to survive whatever apocalyptic disaster she was preparing for. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 12:13:30 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 01:01:53 2012. I suppose poll taxes were acceptable by your standards? You trying to keep those "evil" black people from voting? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 13:05:44 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 12:11:56 2012. All she had to do is make sure the kid couldn't get the guns without being supervised. She belonged to a range. She could have kept them there. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 13:12:26 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 12:13:30 2012. Huh? Whatchu mean?your pal, Fred |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:19:36 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 13:12:26 2012. Hey, that was one of his better pieces of logic, relatively speaking.You can't charge people money to vote. Therefore, charging people money to own a gun is equally unconstitutional. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Dec 18 13:25:13 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:19:36 2012. Ahhh, thanks.your pal, Fred |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Tue Dec 18 13:30:00 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:19:36 2012. See, even a broken clock (AIM) is right every once in a while. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 13:43:51 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Dec 18 07:50:44 2012. The cost of firearm liability insurance would reduce the number of guns out there.the cost of such insurance would be negligible to non-existent since for almost all gun owners, the risk of accident or theft is close to zero. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:54:15 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 13:43:51 2012. There are 15,000 accidental gun injuries a year. That's not close to zero. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:08:04 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 08:57:03 2012. Why do you agree that it it proper to ban machine guns,Contrary to what many people believe, machine guns are not banned. Why do you agree that some states should require background checks and a waiting period, while others do not, when guns are so easily transportable across state lines? because incorporated, national constitutional rights are a floor, not a ceiling on the States and on the People. Why do you not feel that a few hours of mandatory education could dramatically reduce gun thefts? For the same reason that while mandatory free speech education would dramatically reduce thefts of authorship, placing undue burdens on the free exercise of a fundamental individual constitutional right is by definition, unconstitutional. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:08:06 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 13:43:51 2012. LOL!!! I never imagined anyone could be that clueless....
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Dec 18 14:08:35 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by WillD on Tue Dec 18 12:11:56 2012. It's possible that the mother would be forced to budget a bit more carefully and might be less willing to purchase a high powered semiautomatic rifle in order to survive whatever apocalyptic disaster she was preparing for.I doubt it. All the news accounts have pointed to her being independently wealthy and quite free with her money. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 18 14:13:40 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:19:36 2012. Heh?I am charged for somebody's else's gun in my insurance policy. That is even MORE wrong. I want no part of this nor should I be paying for it. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Dec 18 14:17:29 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Tue Dec 18 13:54:15 2012. There are 15,000 accidental gun injuries a year. That's not close to zero.There are 310 MILLION non-military firearms in the US. Accident rate of 0.0048% = close to zero. |
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