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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Railman718 on Mon Dec 17 17:26:33 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. I said this years ago sadly(Ticking timebombs),i have someone in my family whos in that boat.. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 18:06:20 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. being aware that he fits the profile of someone who is potentially a danger to society, what can one do?Does the mother keep a cache of high powered weapons in plane sight in the house? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 18:16:15 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 18:06:20 2012. No! What is your point? Are you saying that if the average criminal can gain access to firearms, that this young man couldn't? Are you saying that he couldn't use a chemical or another form of weapon? Are you saying that he couldn't drive his car into a line of children in front of the local school? If he killed one or two or even five innocents, you wouldn't find it so horrific? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 18:45:40 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. Here's a few things to help.1. To buy a gun, 2 adults with no criminal background need to vouch for you. 2. Semiautomatic guns should be limited to 6 shots. That's plenty to kill a deer or even a bear. 3. A brief waiting periodic answer, like a day or 2, after applying until you get the gun. 4. Mandatory classes for gun owners. Nothing major. Maybe 3 hours. Teach things like how to keep your gun from being stolen by either a stranger or a family member. Not a magic answer. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 18:53:46 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 18:45:40 2012. Hardly foolproof. If a person cannot get a gun legally, he or she can certainly get one illegally. Understand that you cannot prevent someone from plotting and carrying out a similar attack. There is not a security expert in the world who will say otherwise. For anyone to believe otherwise is just plain foolish. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:00:08 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 18:53:46 2012. Of course not foolproof. But I'd rather have a homicidal nut kill 5 people than 28. And some of the homicidal nuts will be too confused to figure out how to get the more deadly weapons and may end up just stabbing someone instead. Not great, but better. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:02:58 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 18:45:40 2012. here's a few things that would help people avoid saying or writing stupid things and furthering civilized discourse and society (a well informed citizenry being necessary to a free State):1. To be able to distribute a pamphlet, start a blog or be allowed to carry a sign on the sidewalk, 2 adults with no criminal background need to vouch for you. 2. Any written thought should not exceed 140 characters. That's plenty to get one's point across. 3. A brief waiting period, like a day or 2 after applying to get your thoughts published. 4. Mandatory classes for those who would like their ideas to be read or heard. Nothing major. Maybe 3 hours. Teach things like authorship rights so they are not stolen by either a stranger of family member. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 19:04:55 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:02:58 2012. I think that should be the minimum requirement to call yourself a journalist. For television, convert those days to weeks. :) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:05:35 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:02:58 2012. Well said. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:10:00 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 18:16:15 2012. While your right about the availability of other techniques for murder, people who are so socially inept are far less likely to have access to the underground market, since said market works largely by word of mouth. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:20:55 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:02:58 2012. Your post is amusing but irrelevant.Freedom of speech is absolute. The right to bear arms is not. Not even Scalia will let you buy an antitank gun. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:22:41 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:10:00 2012. Exactly.Also, the other techniques are so much less efficient. When was the last time a crowd of a dozen people was killed by a guy wielding a knife or a hammer? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:26:58 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:20:55 2012. Freedom of speech is absolute. The right to bear arms is not. Not even Scalia will let you buy an antitank gun.False. Freedom of speech is NOT absolute. The Court's application of certain limits on the exercise of Second Amendment rights are comparable to the Court's "imminent lawless action" limits on the First Amendment. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:27:55 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:26:58 2012. Fine. Also irrelevant. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:41:19 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:10:00 2012. I don't know if Timothy McVeigh was socially inept but he didn't need to go looking for guns, either. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:44:18 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:41:19 2012. I'm pretty sure he bought all of his tools of destruction from legitimate sources. I don't think he was socially inept either. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:46:15 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:20:55 2012. Wrong. Freedom of speech is not absolute and neither is the right to bear arms. But just like freedom of speech is virtually absolute within certain guidelines, the right to bear arms is also. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:47:28 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:41:19 2012. McVeigh was actually said to be very engaging and likable by all those who knew him.The so-called All-American Boy. A war hero to boot. He was level-headed, intelligent, focused, not prone to overt displays of emotion, high-performing and with a drive for perfection. He was the poster boy for the Perfect Terrorist (or Perfect Anything-He-Would-Have-Put-His-Mind-To for that matter). |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:49:43 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:44:18 2012. My original point was that even if you could profile the next mass killer, it would be virtually impossible to prevent the killing, given our current laws. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:51:28 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 19:47:28 2012. Which actually supports my contention that it would be virtually impossible to stop the next person bent on mass killings - even if you could profile him/her. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 19:53:35 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Dec 17 19:44:18 2012. McVeigh is one of the hardest types to prevent. But it's much harder to buy fertilizer without being a farmer nowadays, so it would be hard for anyone to duplicate his feat. If fertilizer were as easy as guns, the crazies would be using fertilizer. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 19:53:39 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 18:16:15 2012. In this specific case, IMO he snapped. For him to acquire another form of killing of that magnatude would require money, serious money & the means to get all that stuff from point a to b, asap which would have envolvet other people & a paper trail etc.He did'nt need that. He had a careless mother that from all reports was aware that her kid was a head case & left her legal fireams unprotected which gave him an easy way to fulfill his warped mission. Thats the issue here. Gun owners should take every precaution available to make sure there weapons are secured so to cut down the possibility of a day like last Friday from ever happening again. If mom had those weapons locked up like rsponsible gun owners should have, this might not have happened. Unfortunally she paid the ultamite price for her eerror in judgement |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:02:43 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 19:53:39 2012. No doubt that she paid with her life for her carelessness but based on his reported respect for the guns, I guess she felt that there was no danger.Who do you think will be the next one to go off the deep end and kill a large number of people? Perhaps a person who by chance gains access to several guns. Maybe the guy doing medical research who has access to Anthrax. Or could it be the gun shop owner who's had enough of whatever. Or an officer at Ft. Hood who hates America Or the pilot of a Boing 767 who decides to take a bunch of people now that he's decided that its time to go. The point is banning assault weapons may be a great idea or maybe not but don't ever let it lead you to a false sense of security. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Dec 17 20:09:40 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:41:19 2012. Considering he had co-conspirators I'd say he was NOT socially inept. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:09:54 2012, in response to You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 17:22:32 2012. You can prevent the next Sandy Hook if the gov't just revokes the Constitution and lobotomizes everyone. Oh wait, one party is already working on that, gotcha. :-) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Dec 17 20:18:01 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:02:43 2012. Great post!! |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 20:20:43 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 18:45:40 2012. 1. To buy a gun, 2 adults with no criminal background need to vouch for you.What effect what that have on the only black, Jew ect. In a small town who’s afraid of getting lynched. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:29:50 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:02:43 2012. Only a tiny fraction of Americans are pilots or gun shop owners. And the pilots get some psychological testing at least.You can't eliminate mass murder. Norway, with its strict rules, proves that. But you can make it harder and maybe prevent half of them. It's just like cars. You can't eliminate car deaths. But deaths per mile driven are a tiny fraction of what they were in 1930, without the privilege of driving being severely restricted. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:30:42 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 20:20:43 2012. Yawn. Get people from out of town. You wouldn't buy the gun in town anyway. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:31:48 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:09:54 2012. Obviously you have no interest in considering the issue seriously. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 20:33:41 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:30:42 2012. what if it's a gay 18 year old who has lived in the town his or her entire life? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:34:59 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:31:48 2012. I'll consider it seriously when the MSM presents the issue fairly. If they're allowed to make a mockery of our government, then why can't I? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Dec 17 20:35:52 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:29:50 2012. There was also an outcry to make cars safer. Airbags and antilock brakes have saved countless lives. Same as trigger locks and mandatory gun safes, where these weapons can be stored safely. Think of how many accidents would be prevented if a kid can't access a weapon that's lying there on the nightstand. The number goes into the thousands yearly. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 20:36:03 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:02:43 2012. Thats the scary part, there are other time bombs out there.We just got to do whatever possible to stop them or at least make their objective more difficult to achive. As an aside, I lost my brother on 9/11 & I did'nt jump up & down to outlaw boxcutters. However, I was then and am now in favor to make it as difficult as possible for that to never happen again. So far, no other jumbo jets have crashed into skyscrapers. Anyone have a problem with what we did to prevent another 9/11? I think not. Would anyone argue that something has to be done to prevent another last Friday?? I think not. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:37:32 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:29:50 2012. How many suicidal pilots do you need? You seem to be resistant to the idea that you cannot profile or stop the next one who is motivated. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 20:38:21 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:34:59 2012. "MSM" trotted out and around? ... looks like those lobotomies were a success. :( |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:38:50 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 20:36:03 2012. Correlation does not indicate causation. Classic republican move right there "LOOK AT WHAT WE DID POST 9/11!!! HASN'T HAPPENED AGAIN, RIGHT?!" |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon Dec 17 20:39:08 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 20:36:03 2012. Sadly,there's plenty here that have argued that, directly or effectively,that nothing should be done. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:39:21 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 20:38:21 2012. Don't worry, when they come they'll have the federal government seal of approval on them. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 20:42:42 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 20:39:21 2012. I'm sure some major defense contractor will bring home that bacon. After all, private sector does it best. :) |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:45:06 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Fisk ave Jim on Mon Dec 17 20:36:03 2012. I certainly wouldn't argue with the need. I just wouldn't want to have a meaningless gesture on the part of our legislators serve to give people a false sense of security while eroding our rights. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 20:46:31 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 19:49:43 2012. My original point was that even if you could profile the next mass killer, it would be virtually impossible to prevent the killing, given our current laws.So, are you advocating: 1. preventive detention for those with a certain profile 2. banning access to all weapons for everyone to prevent those of a certain profile from getting the means for mass killing 3. accepting such mass killings every year as the price we pay to enjoy our freedom from fear. 4. ? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:49:31 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:45:06 2012. Is it eroding our rights to make gun ownership as difficult as car ownership?Is it eroding our rights to say you only have 6 shots at a deer? And would it be meaningless if you could cut down the gun homicides by a portion, say 20%? |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:50:30 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon Dec 17 20:46:31 2012. Why is it that you crud-covered liberals, when at a loss for a coherent argument, always begin your weak retort by saying, "so you are saying........."State your thoughts - don't translate mine. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:52:21 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:49:31 2012. pulling numbers out of thin air or do you have some facts to back it up. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by DanD124 on Mon Dec 17 20:55:57 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by AlM on Mon Dec 17 20:49:31 2012. Is it eroding our rights to make gun ownership as difficult as car ownership?there are no restrictions on car ownership, just restrictions governing driving on public roads. it's perfectly legal for a 10 year old to drive on private property. and people who don't have a license can still buy cars, i read a story once about a wealthy car collector who didn't have a license. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 21:02:25 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 20:42:42 2012. I don't consider anything too outlandish anymore. Politicians will do anything to further their own career, regardless of the party they pledge allegiance to. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 21:05:29 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by rkba on Mon Dec 17 21:02:25 2012. And that's exactly the problem ... add a dash of zero empathy and you've got the mess in control now. |
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Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Dec 17 21:06:51 2012, in response to Re: You Can't Prevent The Next Sandy Hook Incident, posted by Train Dude on Mon Dec 17 20:50:30 2012. But yours are incoherent. Show us that decoder ring you were always yammering about - that might help. |
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