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| Re: nonsense about atheism (241623) | |||
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Re: nonsense about atheism |
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Posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 15:27:42 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 13:34:22 2007. "If a class full of children wanted to learn Biblical Theology, then surely they should be allowed to."But in the vast majority of cases, they do not." Indeed, but in the small minority of cases, where they do (if those even exist), they are not allowed to. If the majority of school kids don't want to, that's fine, however this small minority isn't allowed to. You say that as the majority don't want it, then the minority have to bend to their way. Also it's forcing the minority to go with the crowd, something you've spoken against upthread and in the sentences directly after. "They take suggestion from the adults leading them. And in cases where opinion leaders among the children want it, they do not represent all the children in the group. That's where the tyranny and oppression start." So the adults indoctrinate the children as to what they want? I was only taking the situation where all the class, or a number of students, enough to make a class, want it, and only they have to do it. However, you seem bent on tyranny and oppression that as there are people somewhere else who don't want it, no one's allowed to have it, even if those who don't want it don't have to have it! "Likewise if a class of children wanted the teacher to lead them in prayer at the beginning of the day, surely they should be allowed to." No, they should be educated as to where and when it is appropriate, and where and when it is not. Yu are assuming the whole class asks for it, because you have difficulty imagining anyone who does not believe as you do." It was a hypothetical situtation. It could exist, say in Colorado Springs or so on that the whole class want to pray. I don't have any difficulty in imagining people that don't believe as I do - I know that lots of people don't believe what I do (far more than not, sadly), I know many of the excuses why they either sidestep the issue, ignore the facts or just plain refuse to except, despite the evidence. Where is prayer appropriate - yes they should be taught that prayer is appropriate anywhere, as why should be that on public land the American right to freedom to practise religion is removed? Or are you saying that, like I've been saying, American schools should be places for practical atheism. You also seem to suggest forcing your view on prayer on those that don't share it, again, something that you abhor when you think it might happen to you. "I said that there was historical proof - if you want, I could write a nice long thesis on here on the subject." With no facts to back it up. he resurrection is a belief system - mythology -. There is historical proof that certain groups of people have believed the story since 2,000 or so years go. That's all. It says nothing about the veracity of the alleged event itself." that people have believed it, because of the evidence, for 2000 years aids the case that there is evidence. If the Jewish/Roman authorities could find and show Jesus' body, people wouldn't have believed, surely? I can give you the facts if you want, just say the word. "you are now asserting that if other religions don't believe it, then it can't be true." False statement. I am saying that because non-Christians don't believe in it, that the Constitution rightly prevents you from cramming Christian mythology down the throats of people in public school." so likewise, as countless thousands of people don't believe in evolution, how can you get away with it without the state having to resort to imposing and affirming your beliefs of what can be called true, and what has to be mythology? How can it justify itself imposing the mythology (in your view) as to what is true or not? Likewise people do not believe that religion should be kept out of schools, but you are ramming your 'myth' (well it's not scientifically proven) that it should down their throats, forcing them to conform to your views. It seems a tad hypercritical of you to basically force people who don't believe that it's right, to conform to the belief that you should not force people who don't believe the same as you to conform. ""You are using the loaded word "mythology" to 'beg the question' as to whether it's true." No. I'm using that trerm to show you that God and a resurrected Jesus are within a particular faith-based belief system, not subject to physical or science proof. There are other belief systems which do not include these particular beliefs that are as valid from the point of view of religious freedom." though aren't valid from the point of view as truth. You're basically saying that if science doesn't proof it, it's a myth, and that all myths are equally valid, because of religious freedom. Science cannot prove your statement, therefore you cannot have the government utilising that view, as it is a 'myth', and my 'myth' that evidence can prove something, even if it's unrepeatable is as equally valid as yours. You are wanting impose your myth therefore on the school system, that you can't impose myths on the school system. It's hypocritical nonsense. If you want to believe in the myth of the resurrection, that is your business. But without scientific or phhysical proof, it doesn't belong in public school." So you don't want children to study English, history, human geography, philosophy, etc? All of these, and other subjects all involve teaching things, while based on evidence, that aren't scientifically proven. |
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