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| Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar (1182299) | |||
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Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat May 10 10:13:13 2014, in response to Re: Palestinian university students’ trip to Auschwitz causes uproar, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Fri May 9 12:38:43 2014. Ah, so we finally get to the substance of what you believe. And lo and behold, I've been right this entire time!Oh please. You've never even been in the same postal code as right. This is an argument that many Jews and Israelis make, and Israel does take in many refugees for humanitarian reasons, assuming they can make it from Africa to Israel without getting killed for one reason or another. Ah good. However, Israel does not have the resources to accept every single refugee from every single demographic in need of humanitarian aid, the country would be overwhelmed by that. "Every single one?" Of course not. But giving decidedly non-oppressed people priority simply because of their religion isn't right. The fact that you call out Israel for the crap it is supposedly pulling in Palestine (which I need to remind you yet again is not a country) while saying nothing about the other countries that contribute to the problem proves my point... No. This is the point you consistently fail to grasp: Criticising one contributor to a problem does not imply endorsement of the others. I call out America for the crap it pulled in Iraq— that doesn't mean I ever supported Hussein. I call out America for the crap it's pulling in Afghanistan— that doesn't mean I support the Taliban and/or whichever faction is currently in charge. I criticise Israel for the crap it's pulling in Palestine— that doesn't mean I support Hamas, Egypt, Jordan, or any other entity that's contributing to the problem. The reason I call out America, America, and Israel respectively is because in each of those problems, the nation I'm calling out is the one I'm best equipped to change the policy of. Moreover, sort of like in an OTChat debate, Israel is the only country worth calling out because they're the only country with the potential to realise what they're doing is wrong; I doubt Hamas will respond to anything except removal. ... you see Israel as the country that began all this... Swing and a miss! Well, you missed the ball at any rate. You hit another straw man with great force. You know, if you would stop making ridiculous assumptions about what I "must" believe, then you would make a lot more sense. ...and somehow, Israel is also going to single-handedly end it. Well the problem of non-oppressed Jews getting priority over oppressed refugees in immigration permission is exclusively Israel's problem so it's exclusively theirs to fix. The Israel/Palestine problem is unlikely to be fixed any time soon, so I'm not expecting anyone to do it. That doesn't mean Israel's current policy can't be improved on. Is this because, as you claim, the other countries in the region are fucked up beyond repair? "Beyond repair" is a bit absolute, but I wouldn't hesitate to imply it to Syria at the moment. In that case, maybe the world needs to set out to repair those countries instead of fixating on Israel's relatively benign problems. You do realise that the world is capable of working on more than one problem at a time, right? It's not like convincing Israel to change its policies on immigration and/or Palestine somehow precludes efforts to establish a stable democracy in Egypt or end the civil war in Syria or solve global warming (which apparently kicked off the civil war in Syria). Somehow, I manage to protest America's policy of torturing political prisoners and New York City's policy of "stop and frisk." And you know, the latter seems to have ended. It's almost as if relatively benign problems are also relatively easy to fix! That isn't to say that Israel isn't without flaws, it certainly isn't. Then why have you been throwing a fit over my fairly mild criticisms of its current policy? But they are blown way out of proportion compared to what is going on in the rest of the world. I can name at least a dozen countries much worse than America and yet, I criticise it. That there are worse problems in the world doesn't excuse yours. And that some people want you destroyed for bullshit reasons does not mean everyone who criticises you is one of them. And the plight of the Palestinians is not all that bad compared to some other impoverished, persecuted populations on this planet, let's put this in perspective. It isn't good, but it could be much worse. "It could be worse" might make you feel better about your predicament, but it hardly excuses it. There are plenty of Jews who believe that the Torah was written by Moses with God's dictation at Sinai and cannot be changed in any way. Yes, plenty of. However, I said "at least some self-awareness" not "complete self-awareness." Everyone I know (even the ones who keep kosher) admit that most of the rules were made up by dudes and even take pride in that. Depending on what texts you read, Judaism is no less virulent than Christianity or Islam, and you have people such as Meir Kahane, Yigal Amir and Baruch Goldstein who prove that. My apologies; I said "virulent" but I probably should have said "contagious." Judaism is not known for its efforts to force conversions en masse and so its ability to cause harm is limited by the tiny size of its fanbase. Finally, you let your hatred of all organized religion show yet again, even though no one else here is forcing you to be religious or not. Organised religion has held humanity back for centuries. It corrupts scientific research and education and inspires mass murder. Even its peaceful adherents contribute to the atrocities indirectly by providing an atmosphere in which doing things for stupid reasons is considered socially acceptable and expected. And just a few decades ago, I would have been forced to become religious in my own country— and I would today in many parts of the world. At the moment, my country is in the grip of a political party intending to dismantle it for their personal profit but which remains politically viable because religious people have programmed reactions to buzzwords and displays of piety, and their religions discourage thinking lest they see their holy books for the ancient myths that they are. So being a little miffed at organised religion is expected. Learn to live and let live, you might find yourself with fewer issues here. I'm pretty sure I'm doing exactly that. Unless, of course, your idea of "live and let live" includes immunity from criticism, in which case that's not going to happen and no one should expect that it would. |
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