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| Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders (303015) | |
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| (303132) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sun Mar 1 02:10:51 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 21:18:05 2015. The higher onboard fare is a point of sale surcharge. Consumers are used to getting lower prices by buying in advance or on the web, so this surcharge is not uncommon. In comparison, a POP penalty is priced similarly to a parking ticket. |
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| (303136) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Mar 1 09:25:13 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 27 11:22:19 2015. Slim chance that will happen. It's taking a big risk. |
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| (303139) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 1 15:15:04 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 27 23:23:07 2015. I thought we were comparing the ways you are supposed to pay. Because what gets you in trouble is not following the rules. |
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| (303140) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 1 15:24:36 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 28 12:10:52 2015. Tapping an RFID card on the curb would be the best. |
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| (303141) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 1 16:47:26 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 21:54:50 2015. Thanks. |
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| (303142) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 1 18:03:00 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Mar 1 09:25:13 2015. Small claims court can always be used which doesn’t require a lawyer. |
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| (303144) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 18:18:55 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 1 18:03:00 2015. Wonder how often the TA gets dragged in there ? |
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| (303151) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 1 20:28:31 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 21:18:05 2015. Traditionally, a higher fare is collected on board commuter trains because the passenger did not go to the ticket agent to make inquiry about the fare, and to buy a ticket. But now with ticket vending machines available at stations, and some commuter railroads charging higher fares at such stations in the absence of a person, then yes, it is a similar issue. There remains, however, a significant difference in that the person boarding the commuter train is not engaging in a criminal act by boarding without a ticket. |
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| (303153) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 1 20:33:03 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 1 18:03:00 2015. For individuals, there's no obligation to have a lawyer. But for corporations and LLCs, a lawyer is generally required to appear in court . . . but in small claims court in NYC a corporation does not need a lawyer. Small claims makes its forum more accessible to non-lawyers (there are many "how-to" booklets), whereas other courts can be more intimidating to non-lawyers. |
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| (303154) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 1 20:37:44 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 28 12:10:52 2015. Speeding up service is good, for not being able to process passengers rapidly would defeat the inherent attribute of "mass" transportation. Nonetheless, whatever method is used to speed up service, it must be easily understood, and enforcement mechanisms must incorporate due process. |
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| (303156) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Sun Mar 1 22:32:09 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Joe V on Sun Mar 1 18:18:55 2015. The TA probably gets dragged in there a lot more that the agency would care to admit. The MTA may even settle out of court before it even gets there to avoid having a potentially precedent setting decision go against it so that it can keep the intimidation. |
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| (303159) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by R36 #9346 on Mon Mar 2 03:24:06 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. The "Get ticket here" signs on the machines at the bus stops, and the "Pay before boarding" signs on the buses should be sufficient.Then there's the issue of the driver allowing her onto the bus despite not having that receipt. |
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| (303163) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 08:02:41 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. Nothing like MTA's ChickenShit Select. I hear it is made with 100% *Bus rapid transit (*not fully bus rapid transit)..... |
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| (303165) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 2 08:42:25 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 17:10:02 2015. I agree!Unfortunately, SBS has been of a higher priority than fare media technology. If the two matched pace, (i.e. you did not need to validate) we wouldn't have this problem. I blame the funding (federal?) for SBS. I don't think we'll see similar funding for fare media technology. |
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| (303166) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 2 08:47:44 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 1 20:28:31 2015. While the amounts may have changed, in London they called it a penalty fare if you were caught around the system without proof of payment. 50 British Pounds. But. . .only 21 if you paid on the spot. Even with the conversion to dollars, we are talking substantially less than an SBS summons, and I'd say the system there is more expensive.In full disclosure, I believe the London signage advertising the penalty does say that you can be prosecuted though. |
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| (303167) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 2 09:01:45 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Sun Mar 1 18:03:00 2015. Technically no court requires a lawyer. Small claims just simplifies the procedure. |
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| (303169) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 09:55:34 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Sun Mar 1 20:28:31 2015. Not criminal or even a crime as it were. It is legally classified as a violation as per the NYS penal law. Not breaking your balls, just clarifying. |
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| (303170) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 10:06:44 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Mar 2 09:01:45 2015. True. |
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| (303172) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 10:20:10 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Mar 2 08:42:25 2015. It could be simplified and good "customer" service with fare validating machines carried by the fare inspectors, but that would stop the MTA from issuing those $100 summonses and lowering just another stream of income for the MTA. LASD & SFMTA fare inspectors carry a validating unit, just to name 2 agencies that are not bent on issuing summonses. Now you see why I call it ChickenShit select. It's IMO chickenshit to issue a violation for a "customer" that already paid their fare in advance when the MetroCard was purchased. I'd think a class action suit would fix the MTA's little red wagon, for theft as it were. the customer paid a tariff for service when on the chickenshit select they are issued a violation, because of terms set in motion by the MTA to collect revenue in addition to the fare/tariff already paid in advance. Just my $102.52. |
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| (303173) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Mar 2 10:34:01 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 10:20:10 2015. It is a magnetic card system trying to be an RFID system.MTA wants it both ways while they cannot emerge from the 1980's. |
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| (303192) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 3 01:25:48 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Mar 1 15:15:04 2015. The difference is in Boston, the rules are not enforced. |
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| (303195) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 3 07:25:53 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Tue Mar 3 01:25:48 2015. Doesn't matter. Also, they aren't enforced until such time as they decide to enforce them and then you come crying here. Follow the rules and you won't have a problem. . |
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| (303197) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 3 09:51:52 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Terrapin Station on Tue Mar 3 07:25:53 2015. All the SBS routes are enforced here after a three week grace period. |
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| (303203) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Mar 3 11:40:26 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 2 09:55:34 2015. Under New York, and a refined reading of the Penal Law, that's correct. A "'[c]rime' means a misdemeanor or a felony," Penal law § 10.00(6); the broader term "'[o]ffense means conduct for which a sentence to a term of imprisonment or to a fine is provided by any law of this state or by any law, local law or ordinance of a political subdivision of this state, or by any order, rule or regulation of any governmental instrumentality authorized by law to adopt the same," Penal Law § 10.00(1). Other states may use similar or different terms. In any case, I think you'll agree that the larger point holds whether the act is a "crime" or merely a "violation." |
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| (303205) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Tue Mar 3 13:34:26 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 3 09:51:52 2015. What does that have to do with ANYTHING??? Seriously, try to pay attention. |
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| (303209) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TheHat on Tue Mar 3 15:21:52 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Tue Mar 3 11:40:26 2015. That is what I meant, I didn't want to gen into PL's. What you just posted is what I condensed and paraphrased. Thanks. |
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| (303217) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 3 17:38:19 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TERRApin Station on Tue Mar 3 13:34:26 2015. You said it wasn't enforced. Didn't realize you were referring to Boston. |
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| (303236) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Wed Mar 4 12:58:28 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Mar 3 17:38:19 2015. OK |
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| (314828) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by thelaw on Thu Jun 23 20:27:03 2016, in response to Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Gold_12th on Wed Feb 25 01:54:25 2015. This is an interesting thread. The SBS bus has recently been introduced to Queens. And it appears that the MTA hasn't learned anything from how inadequate the system is and especially the complete lack of signage. How is anyone supposed to know that, if you have fare or coins, that you should get a ticket for the SBS Select Bus? They have huge ads, electronic information, maps -- everything other than simple and noticeable instruction at stations that your money, mta metro card or a transfer ticket are still not sufficient.I decided to take this woman's case pro bono to fight this issue and save her money. What amazed me was the assumption by some MTA employees that "everyone knows about it." Until I almost was ticketed myself when this bus first arrived, I had never used an SBS bus in all my years in New York City. http://www.thelaw.com/law/pro-bono-my-mta-select-bus-service-fare-evasion-case.474/ I'd enjoy it if people contacted me about similar experiences and am trying to understand why there hasn't been adequate signage posted since inception. It's like having a speed limit on a road but without an adequate or visible sign. |
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