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| (303015) | |
Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Wed Feb 25 01:54:25 2015 |
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| (303016) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 25 08:48:25 2015, in response to Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Gold_12th on Wed Feb 25 01:54:25 2015. Aw, grow up. Signs say "get ticket here."You have an unlimited, so what? How would the MTA know that - by looking at the card? But if the driver told her to stay on, he was at fault. |
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| (303032) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Wed Feb 25 17:33:09 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 25 08:48:25 2015. Yes, the MTA should know that "by looking at the card." Elsewhere in the world, there are hand-held card readers used by fare inspectors. A reasonable person would expect fare inspectors to be able to look at a card and read its content. Using paper receipts is as backwards as using paper transfers. |
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| (303033) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Wed Feb 25 18:15:48 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Wed Feb 25 08:48:25 2015. Even with an unlimited card riders still HAVE TO PAY the fare! What does a card type have to do wit it. When I use unlimiteds, I still swipe (or dip), as do most other people. The fare is deducted accordingly. Unlimited is not free. And I believe the driver was wrong in telling her what he did because when the inspectors come charging in the driver won't know or remember what he / she said. Driving and collecting fares: two separate entities these days. |
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| (303038) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by r17-6599 on Wed Feb 25 18:15:48 2015. But she wasn't a fare beater since she had an unlimited card, so she should not have been found guilty. Her crime was not getting a ticket and the bus driver gave her wrong information which should have been enough to get the ticket dismissed.A sign just saying "Get ticket here" is not sufficient. It makes it seem like it's an option. It should say perhaps in smaller print that a ticket is required to board. Although regular riders know this, there are always first timers and signs must be geared to them. |
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| (303040) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 26 11:55:32 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. I completely disagree. At what point do we stop coddling the ignorant, the stupid and the inattentive? |
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| (303041) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 26 11:57:28 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. The machines say "Get Ticket Here", then right under that, in smaller print, "before you board bus." Seems pretty clear. |
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| (303042) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 26 12:53:35 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 26 11:55:32 2015. Absolutely!Although his point that some signage suggests that the ticket is just an option is true. Even at the doors of the bus it says "please" pay before boarding, as if you can just decide what you want to do. Just fix the signage on the bus itself. The bus stop you can leave be. |
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| (303043) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 26 12:55:17 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. Possessing an unlimited card does automatically mean no evasion was attempted. Yes, it's unlikely, but totally conceivable that she used the card to get a ticket for someone else, too recently. |
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| (303044) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 26 12:55:58 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 26 12:55:17 2015. Correction.. . .does not automatically mean. . . |
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| (303045) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Cornell Park on Thu Feb 26 12:56:36 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 26 11:57:28 2015. "The machines say "Get Ticket Here", then right under that, in smaller print, "before you board bus." Seems pretty clear."Is there a farebox in the bus even though the sign says get ticket here? Not knowing how SBS works could cause confussion. Pre-paid and pay onboard options could be what people think. Unless the sign says that you must pay here and have a receipt to ride, I could see a misunderstanding happening. |
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| (303048) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 26 15:14:28 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. The same situation happened to my wife,but on a greater scale.The SBS MVM not only refused to give here a proof of purchase slip,it also wiped out her MetroCard to a zero balance. She received a ticket,went to court,missing a day at work. Luckily,after the MTA actually did a True investigation, she was vindicated and received a new card with her balance restored. |
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| (303051) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Feb 26 17:47:40 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Wed Feb 25 17:33:09 2015. Right, because if the bus comes and there is a line for the machine, they will pull right off and leave you. The M34 does it, and there are large gaps in service at the Javitz Center. There is also someone that doesn't know how to use the machine. But if you get on the bus you can get a ticket for fare evasion even though you paid $112 for your unlimited metrocard. |
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| (303055) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Thu Feb 26 19:22:52 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 11:34:40 2015. It is correct to say that a person with an unlimited card has not engaged in fare evasion, when failing to tender that card to get a receipt, because that person has, in fact, paid the correct fare (that is, the $112 for 30 days usage). However, the NYCTA rule relating to fare evasion, 21 NYCRR § 1050.4(a), defines two separate violations. First, a person entering a conveyance without the payment of the fare (this being a traditional "fare evasion" violation). Second, a person entering a conveyance without "tender of other valid fare media used in accordance with any conditions and restrictions imposed by the Authority." Such conditions and restrictions are then specified in more detail in section V of the NYCTA tariff (which, unfortunately, NYCTA does not make readily available on its website), stating: "Passengers using Select Bus Service with off-board fare collection must pay or validate their fare and obtain a valid proof-of-payment receipt prior to boarding the Select Bus Service bus. So the violation would not be "fare evasion" but rather "failure to tender other valid fare media."It will be interesting to see what might happen should "select bus service" be offered by MTABC. The foregoing rules specifically state that they apply only to NYCTA and MaBSTOA service, as authorized by sections 1203-a(3) and 1204(5-a) of the Public Authorities Law. 21 NYCRR § 1050.1(a). Thus, unless new rules are authorized and adopted by MTABC, alleged violations have to be considered in light of the Penal Law (which applies to all railroad, subway, bus, air, taxi and other public transportation services throughout the state), rather than NYCTA and MaBSTOA rules. Under section 165.15(3) of the Penal Law, it is a class A misdemeanor--theft of services--for a person "[w]ith intent to obtain . . . bus . . . or any other public transportation service without payment of the lawful charge therefor, . . . he obtains or attempts to obtain such service . . . ." That is, the Penal Law only has the "fare evasion" provision, but no provision to that of the NYCTA and MaBSTOA rules relating to the tendering of fare media in accordance with imposed conditions and restrictions. |
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| (303059) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 20:06:30 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Cornell Park on Thu Feb 26 12:56:36 2015. SBS buses have the slot covered over so you cannot pay on board. But te time I used the M34 SBS, they used a regular bus without the SBS paint scheme and you could have paid on board and still have received a summons. |
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| (303060) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 20:09:17 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Edwards! on Thu Feb 26 15:14:28 2015. So she still was a loser by missing a day of work. |
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| (303061) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 20:09:34 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Feb 26 12:55:58 2015. I see your point. |
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| (303063) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 26 23:10:36 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Thu Feb 26 19:22:52 2015. Well, since they took care to adopt this new rule for NYCTA and MABSTOA, they will likely do the same for MTABC. |
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| (303065) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 27 01:19:35 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by r17-6599 on Wed Feb 25 18:15:48 2015. To put things into perspective...In Boston, when they redid the fare structure to Charlie Cards and Tickets, technically the surface trolley routes became PoP like SBS. You were supposed to pay the fare at the farebox and obtain a receipt. If you had an unlimited ride card with the expiration date printed on it, you did not need to get a ticket from the farebox. I don't think I have ever seen one of these validated tickets in all my green line riding. Fast forward ~8 years: no only does no one ever get a validated ticket, if you have an unlimited ride value on your charlie card you can apparently just wave it, and the driver will usually trust you have a valid pass on it and are not simply waving a completely empty card. |
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| (303066) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 02:47:58 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Feb 26 20:09:17 2015. She could probably go to the court of claims and sued for her day’s pay. |
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| (303069) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri Feb 27 08:14:13 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 02:47:58 2015. .....which would probably cost another day's pay. |
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| (303073) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 27 10:13:08 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri Feb 27 08:14:13 2015. Not to mention court expenses which would cost more htan she could ever win.Losing a days pay is the reason most would rather pay than fight an unfair charge. |
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| (303074) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 27 10:22:16 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 27 01:19:35 2015. Interesting how different cities treat their passengers. In Toronto when the trolley is late, the driver asks everyone to be honest and anyone with a valid ticket to enter through the rear door and anyone who needs to pay to enter through the front, to minimize delays.Compare that with New York where you can still be fined $100 merely by following the instructions of the bus driver. To muddy the waters further, I once used an M34 SBS which used regular buses where you also coud have swiped your pass note bus and still received a summons. And I also used the B49 which as no SBS on it but uses some SBS buses and the driver instructs you to ride for free. |
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| (303076) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by The silence on Fri Feb 27 11:04:18 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Wed Feb 25 17:33:09 2015. Here's the problem with proof of payment and passes.When I went to Seattle in 2009, they had just introduced thier ORCA card. I was riding on the then new Central Link light rail line. Fare inspectors got ontogeny train at one stop and asked to see everyone's tickets. All I had to do was show them my ORCA card just by holding it up, they did not check if I had tapped in when I entered the station. They did not check if there was money on the card. They assumed, in this case correctly, that I was being honest about my fare. In the current case, this woman strikes me at as the type of person who makes assumptions and then runs with it. I would not be surprised if she goes throught open exit gates and thinks it's ok because she has an unlimited card... |
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| (303077) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 27 11:20:56 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 02:47:58 2015. The NYCTA is sued in Supreme Court. |
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| (303078) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 27 11:21:27 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Fri Feb 27 08:14:13 2015. So nobody gets PTO anymore? |
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| (303079) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 27 11:22:19 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 27 10:13:08 2015. Courts can award costs and disbursements to a successful party. |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:33:43 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Thu Feb 26 19:22:52 2015. the NYCTA tariff (which, unfortunately, NYCTA does not make readily available on its website)Could you email that to me? |
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| (303083) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:43:44 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Thu Feb 26 19:22:52 2015. First of all, I completely agree with you that BrooklynBus is wrong (as he usually is). However, I have a comment.It is correct to say that a person with an unlimited card has not engaged in fare evasion, when failing to tender that card to get a receipt, because that person has, in fact, paid the correct fare (that is, the $112 for 30 days usage). However, the NYCTA rule relating to fare evasion, 21 NYCRR § 1050.4(a), defines two separate violations. First, a person entering a conveyance without the payment of the fare (this being a traditional "fare evasion" violation). Second, a person entering a conveyance without "tender of other valid fare media used in accordance with any conditions and restrictions imposed by the Authority." Such conditions and restrictions are then specified in more detail in section V of the NYCTA tariff (which, unfortunately, NYCTA does not make readily available on its website), stating: "Passengers using Select Bus Service with off-board fare collection must pay or validate their fare and obtain a valid proof-of-payment receipt prior to boarding the Select Bus Service bus. So the violation would not be "fare evasion" but rather "failure to tender other valid fare media."If you hop a turnstile in the subway while holding a valid Unlimited Metrocard, you can still be found guilty of fare evasion. Likewise, if you board a non-SBS NYCT bus while holding a valid Unlimited Metrocard, you can still be found guilty of fare evasion. So I assume that the NYCTA Tariff must also contain language stating that you must swipe your valid Unlimited Metrocard in any turnstile or farebox where required to do so in order to enter the conveyance. |
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| (303084) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:49:18 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 27 01:19:35 2015. Fast forward ~8 years: no only does no one ever get a validated ticket, if you have an unlimited ride value on your charlie card you can apparently just wave it, and the driver will usually trust you have a valid pass on it and are not simply waving a completely empty card.That's not what it says here: Entering On-Board Fare Boxes |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Fri Feb 27 15:07:39 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 26 11:55:32 2015. At what point do we stop coddling the ignorant, the stupid and the inattentive?But didn't you know? Riding buses and trains is just as complicated as rocket science! One needs to obtain a Masters Degree in "transit riding" in order to be eligible to patronize any transit system... :-) |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 16:12:43 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Feb 27 10:22:16 2015. Intersting point. If there driver has authorized the passenger to ride under the conditions cited, then the inspectors should drop the case right there. |
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| (303090) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 16:16:45 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Fri Feb 27 15:07:39 2015. And what do you do about a person who had been living outside the city since before SBS and returns for a visit not being familiar with the SBS system? |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 27 20:46:41 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Fri Feb 27 16:16:45 2015. Can't they read the instructions on the ticket machines? |
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| (303101) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 21:50:28 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 26 23:10:36 2015. If you look at the rules, you'll see that they state that NYCTA and MaBSTOA (both being affiliates, not subsidiaries, of MTA) are authorized to make the rules pursuant to Public Authorities Law sections 1203-a(3) and 1204(5-a). 21 NYCRR § 1050.1(a). Section 1204(5-a)—which was enacted by the state legislature—goes into great detail about what authority the NYCTA has to adopt rules, and how those rules may be enforced. Section 1203-a(3)—also enacted by the state legislature—states that "The subsidiary corporation [meaning MaBSOTA, a subsidiary of NYCTA] shall have all of the powers vested in the transit authority by section twelve hundred four of this title . . . ." So there exists state legislation authorizing NYCTA and MaBSTOA to have these rules, and for the rules to be enforced.MTABC is a subsidiary of the MTA, and is not governed by the law authorizing NYCTA or MaBSTOA; it has to rely on other authorizing legislation. Section 1266(3) authorizes the MTA to establish and collect fares for MTABC-operated services. Section 1266(4) authorizes the MTA to establish rules and regulations; the violation of a rule or regulation "governing the conduct or the safety of the public in or upon any facility" may constitute an offense punishable by a fine not in excess of $50 and/or up to 30 days imprisonment. Note that this punishment is greater than the punishment for a violation of NYCTA or MaBSOTA rules (which is limited to $25 and/or up to 10 days imprisonment), and unlike violations of NYCTA or MaBSTOA rules, section 1266(4) does not provide for the civil fines that are administered by the transit adjudication bureau. In short, this provision does not provide MTA (and MTABC) with the same powers accorded to NYCTA and MaBSTOA. To make them the same, it may be necessary to amend state law (that is, neither the MTA nor MTABC can do this themselves). |
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| (303102) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 21:54:50 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:33:43 2015. Relevant portions of the NYCTA tariff are in this excerpt, available online.I don't know if the complete tariff is posted anywhere online, or otherwise made available generally to the passengers to whom it regulates. |
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| (303103) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 22:09:30 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:43:44 2015. I think you may just be re-stating what I had intended to communicate. What is generally called a "fare evasion" citation may in fact be either a true fare evasion violation or a failure to tender fare media in accordance with conditions and restrictions. So in both of the hypothetical cases, there would not be true fare evasion since since the accused would have paid $112 for the valid unlimited MetroCard. Instead, the accused would have failed to tender that valid unlimited MetroCard in accordance with conditions and restrictions. The tariff requires that valid unlimited MetroCards be processed by the turnstiles before passing into the subway, and processed by the vending machines (and retaining a receipt therefrom) before passing into a SBS bus. So a person who has failed to comply with these tariff conditions and restrictions would have failed to properly tender fare media, and would be properly cited with "fare evasion."It would be interesting to see the result if an accused person claimed not to have been on notice as to the conditions and restrictions of the tariff, notwithstanding the legend on MetroCards ("Subject to applicable tariffs and conditions of use"), because NYCTA does not make its tariff available generally to the riding public. |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 22:25:00 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Fri Feb 27 15:07:39 2015. Public transportation is largely irrelevant in the United States. According to the American Community Survey, 2008-2012, only 5.0 percent of people commute to work using public transportation. Most people, other than those who live or work in New York City (and a small handful of other large urban communities), have little understanding of the procedures used to ride public transportation, and at best might have a fuzzy idea of dropping a nickel into a farebox. Having complicated procedures to use public transportation does not enhance the image of public transportation. This includes having to buy cards and dealing with machines that are set up with lots of buttons and steps along the way. It is much easier for most people to bypass complicated machines, and to instead talk and interact with the person apparently in charge of the system: the bus driver. |
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| (303106) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Feb 27 23:23:07 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by TERRApin Station on Fri Feb 27 12:49:18 2015. I didn't say that's what the rule was, I was just saying what actually happens.MBTA fare collection hasn't ever actually followed their own printed rules. The "rule" for buses was exact change or token only. In actuality, there was a slot in the side of the box where people would stuff in dollar bills. Image. |
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| (303108) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:24:53 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Fri Feb 27 20:46:41 2015. A person living outside of the city for an extended period probably wouldn’t think to look for any ticket machines on the street unlike the subway where turnstiles are the norm. |
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| (303112) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 28 11:18:29 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:24:53 2015. SBS is the only situation when you need advance knowledge to avoid a summons.On the bus, the driver will (or should) tell you if you have not correctly paid fare. On the subway there are bars that will not move until you have correctly paid fare. SBS is the only situation when a door opens inviting you on to a bus that begins to move without ever making you do anything, or having anyone tell you to do anything. |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 28 11:22:31 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Fri Feb 27 22:09:30 2015. Unfortunately it is not a court of law which processes these citations. Has anyone simply said "fuck this fine, I'll take the permanent NYCT ban, see ya suckers!"? |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 28 11:56:26 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 28 11:18:29 2015. The POP should be like San Fran, where you tap a card on a reader by the door (front or back). But we still use mag stripes so oh well... |
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| (303115) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 28 12:10:52 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 28 11:56:26 2015. The idea is to speed boarding by not requiring passengers to slide or dip or tap anything - just pay in advance and board. |
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| (303116) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 28 12:19:54 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by italianstallion on Sat Feb 28 12:10:52 2015. If you were to tap something on board, and it was available at every door, and the enforcers were able to confirm that you did that by just touching your card to a device, I think the overall time savings would be worth it. They would not have to read the time on the paper when they check, and you can still use every door for boarding. The extra seconds lost to having people make that short tap can be regained by faster checks.BTW have they still been freezing the bus while the checks take place or have they gotten to doing them when they should, which is while the bus is in motion (thus the bus can move and nobody can "escape")? |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 17:10:02 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by randyo on Sat Feb 28 01:24:53 2015. It is bad customer service in SBS to make your most regular, valuable passenger, a daily commuter, to do more work. |
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| (303122) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 28 17:21:31 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Feb 27 11:21:27 2015. People are increasingly consultant or temp W2 workers with no benes. |
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| (303124) | |
Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 28 18:54:10 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Feb 28 11:18:29 2015. SBS is the only situation when you need advance knowledge to avoid a summons.And that's the big reason that I've always been maintained a great deal of reluctance of accepting "proof of payment" concepts. Fares and services are not always simple, and many times there are questions by intending passengers as to the applicability of fares for particular services, or what services ought to be utilized to complete an intended journey. These individuals want to have some type of interaction to either find out information, or to confirm their perception of the information held. And, traditionally, the law has followed these ideas, and generally what has been criminalized is the refusal to pay, not the failure to pay. That is, traditionally there has had to be a demand by the transportation operator (and, arguably, a turnstile blocking the way constitutes a "demand" for payment). Proof of payment schemes on their head, where the duty to determine the application of fares is changed from the operator of the service to the passenger. An error--which, with complicated structures, is not uncommon--is no longer the fault of the transportation operator (addressable through employee training, more reasonable fare structures, and/or addressing the confusion afterwards civilly), but rather has become the fault of the customer (and is addressed criminally). Most egregious is that if a customer asks a company employee for fare information, and is given wrong information by the employee, it is the customer that is then pursued criminally (though this is the same procedure when IRS employees give out wrong information to taxpayers). Transportation companies should retain the responsibility for determining the amount of fare payable, and demanding payment therefor, rather than delegating that assessment duty on passengers, backed by criminal penalties for their failure to do so accurately. |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 28 18:58:55 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sat Feb 28 11:22:31 2015. The TAB is not a judicial court, but rather an administrative forum. It nonetheless has the duty to provide due process, and its decisions are reviewable by a court pursuant to article 78 of the CPLR. But yes, NYCTA does take advantage of utilizing its own forum, and maintaining an article 78 proceeding merely to enforce one's right to due process is an additional and unfair burden. As for avoiding a judgment of the TAB, the NYCTA is still permitted to enforce the judgment, even if the individual does not continue patronizing NYCTA going forward. |
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Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders |
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Posted by Merrick1 on Sat Feb 28 21:18:05 2015, in response to Re: Select Bus Service ticket... still confuse riders, posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 28 18:54:10 2015. How does a POP penalty differ in principal from the higher on board fare charged on commuter trains? |
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