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| First Grumman 870 in NYC service (296921) | |
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| (296921) | |
First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by caine515 on Fri Aug 22 13:24:44 2014 doeas anyone remember the first route to get the Grumman 870 when they arrived and the first depot to get them back in service when they were pulled? I remember Ulmer Park had PA31-PA55 plus the 200's series when they arrived. Castleton had the 400's for express service. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Aug 22 19:23:11 2014, in response to First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Fri Aug 22 13:24:44 2014. Does that include bus #100 which started the X61 Bronx(Riverdale)/Manhattan Express service in '78? If so, that's numero uno, and Kingsbridge housed it.jrc |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:39:58 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Aug 22 19:23:11 2014. JRC and later became 199 w/o hoodlum lights. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by jeffx on Sat Aug 23 01:51:18 2014, in response to First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Fri Aug 22 13:24:44 2014. I thought the B68 was the first to have them (well, maybe in Brooklyn at least), but that's from what I remember. The second route I saw them on was the B6. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat Aug 23 19:15:56 2014, in response to First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Fri Aug 22 13:24:44 2014. I do remember that TA depots had them at least a couple of months before the OA depots.I would've guessed ENY would've operated the first units since they always rec'd the lowest numbered buses, but I know that doesn't mean much. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Sat Aug 23 21:09:58 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Sat Aug 23 19:15:56 2014. As far as I can recall the M15 had the 870's first ( not counting the #100 as mentioned earlier). A friend was a taxi driver in 1979 and mentioned the "new dark buses" on 1st and 2nd avenues he kept seeing.Could be wrong but I always thought the M15 was first. jrc |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by caine515 on Sat Aug 23 23:40:59 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Sat Aug 23 19:15:56 2014. The following depots got them:UP, JG, ENY, CAS, JA,54th, HUD i think |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Sat Aug 23 23:47:10 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by r17-6599 on Sat Aug 23 21:09:58 2014. Times like this is when I miss Alan Bromberger. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 24 14:23:56 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Sat Aug 23 23:40:59 2014. We had them on Queens Transit, but I think we had 8's and they stayed in service for many years. I just don't remember the timeline versus the TA deliveries, though. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 21:44:14 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Sat Aug 23 23:40:59 2014. FP,FLU and QV as well.FP's original order was 322-342 and PA71-PA77. PA70 arrived when the 500's arrived,526-533. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by caine515 on Sun Aug 24 22:04:56 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 21:44:14 2014. Thanks all for the info |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Aug 24 22:31:02 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 21:44:14 2014. I didn't think FP had all that many.The very last one I saw in service was on the B24 at Meeker/Kingsland the evening of the day Gunn announced that once they pull in after their service day, it was over. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 23:00:39 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by Bill From Maspeth on Sun Aug 24 22:31:02 2014. When ENY and FLU went all RTS, their Grummans (not sure if all) were sent to FP which became a Grumman depot, losing their RTS's. FP's 500's were transferred out. FP also received seven Grummans, PA131-PA137 from a MABSTOA depot, forget which one. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by RetiredSLD on Mon Aug 25 10:27:21 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 23:00:39 2014. Just find in my archives the original lawsuit papers filed in NYS Supreme court 6/26/84 NYCTA,MABSTOA,PA-NYNJ vs Grumman Corp. Interesting part is a quote from the parties suing as the bus being described as "the worst bus ever made". Also found from 3/23/85 the transcript of the examination and cross examination of ACMO of buses giving testimony of the complete review and investigation of the Grumman 870. 203 pages worth ! Brings back the memory of bringing up the buses from DC |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 10:55:46 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by pragmatist on Sun Aug 24 14:23:56 2014. We had them on Queens Transit, but I think we had 8's and they stayed in service for many years. I just don't remember the timeline versus the TA deliveries, though.Yes, the Queens/Steinway Transit, Jamaica Buses, Triboro Coach, and Green Bus Lines did get Grumman 870s. They were an add-on to the NYCTA 837-bus order. You're right in the the privates Grumman 870s had DD 8V-71N engines in them while TA/OA buses had the DD 6V-71N engine The privates didn't rec'd their buses late because of the A-Frame problem. At the time they were first taken out of service... The TA/OA had rec'd 637 of their buses, and were still due the last 200 (which were the lift-equipped buses). The last 200 for TA/OA and all of the privates Grumman 870s were delivered after the original buses were repaired. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 10:57:43 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Sun Aug 24 23:00:39 2014. PA131-PA137 came from AMS, which I found odd because AMS also became a Grumman depot. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by busdude2 on Mon Aug 25 11:20:14 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 10:55:46 2014. And NJT laughed all the way to the bank when they bought a bunch of them cheap. Many ran until about 2001. |
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| (297059) | |
Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by pragmatist on Mon Aug 25 11:20:57 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 10:55:46 2014. jewel ave bus, either to the subway, or the express to manhattan was my main way to get to work and school. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 12:11:57 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by busdude2 on Mon Aug 25 11:20:14 2014. And NJT laughed all the way to the bank when they bought a bunch of them cheap. Many ran until about 2001.Agreed! First they grabbed 120 of them. Then I guess NJTransit really realized what a steal this was (and how NYCTA was moronic) and bought 500 more of the buses. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by fishbowls4ever on Mon Aug 25 13:49:19 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 12:11:57 2014. what happened to the rest of them? |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Aug 25 13:59:34 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by fishbowls4ever on Mon Aug 25 13:49:19 2014. Queen City Metro (SORTA) of Cincinnati, purchased leftover units, and others went as far down as Mexico. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Aug 25 14:18:32 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Aug 25 13:59:34 2014. Queen City Metro (SORTA) of Cincinnati, purchased leftover units, and others went as far down as Mexico.PVTA in Springfield, MA bought the 96" 870s intended for Avenue B & East Broadway. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by busdude2 on Mon Aug 25 14:27:20 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 12:11:57 2014. Yep it was a great deal. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by mcorivervsaf on Mon Aug 25 15:22:39 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Aug 25 14:18:32 2014. Affirmative!There's a couple on them up on the BusTalk Galleries page for proof/proff! |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Mon Aug 25 15:33:15 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by caine515 on Sat Aug 23 23:40:59 2014. you forgot Fresh Pond.. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by B53RICH on Mon Aug 25 19:23:41 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Mon Aug 25 10:57:43 2014. Thanks, thought it was AMS but wasn't sure. They ran the M100.What other Grummans did AMS have? |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Aug 27 09:42:05 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon Aug 25 14:18:32 2014. IMO... Those (553-565) were the best of the TA/OA fleet. |
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| (297126) | |
Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Aug 27 10:06:54 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Mon Aug 25 19:23:41 2014. Thanks, thought it was AMS but wasn't sure. They ran the M100.What other Grummans did AMS have? It's funny that you ask... For some reason, I could never keep AMS' orgiginal Grummans straight. I know they had something like 697-720, PA130-PA140, and 849-868. Yes, in those days AMS routes were the M100, M104, and Bx6. |
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| (297127) | |
Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Aug 27 10:09:00 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:39:58 2014. Yeah, and it operated out of QV, and they used it on the X68 since it had 2x2 soft seating. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by B53RICH on Wed Aug 27 18:35:27 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Wed Aug 27 10:09:00 2014. I once saw 199 on the Q44A (Q46). I was at the Union Turnpike/Queens Boulevard stop where the statue once was. Somehow I'm thinking it still was as #100 when I saw it. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by busdude2 on Wed Aug 27 18:39:35 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by B53RICH on Wed Aug 27 18:35:27 2014. Why was the number changed ? |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by TheHat on Wed Aug 27 18:47:16 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by busdude2 on Wed Aug 27 18:39:35 2014. Good question. To add to your question, did 100 stay after it was demo'd or go back to Grumman then return to NYCTA & get renumbered? |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Aug 27 19:02:15 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by TheHat on Wed Aug 27 18:47:16 2014. I don't know if it ever left, but my understanding is that Grumman gave the demo to NYCTA as compensation for a new look Flxible (still under warranty) that burned to a crisp. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by TheHat on Wed Aug 27 21:16:31 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by TheHat on Wed Aug 27 18:47:16 2014. Ok. Just a guess it was renumbered so not be confused with the sequnece of PA funded buses? |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by B53RICH on Wed Aug 27 21:22:07 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by busdude2 on Wed Aug 27 18:39:35 2014. Started thinking about your question then remembered PA100 was later added to service so I guess that demo #100 was changed to avoid a conflict in numbers.When the NYC Grummans were sold to NJT, 199 became 2330. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by WayneJay on Thu Aug 28 21:45:12 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by TheHat on Wed Aug 27 21:16:31 2014. Didn't think about that, but you make a good point. |
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Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service |
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Posted by TheHat on Thu Aug 28 23:15:51 2014, in response to Re: First Grumman 870 in NYC service, posted by WayneJay on Thu Aug 28 21:45:12 2014. Thanks, Now for a new question. Why did the 870 come with a hand "shop" brake & an "ICC" air parking brake? Also did 100 have this setup, as it was a demo for regular production, not a TA/OA specified unit? |
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