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| Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question (345781) | |||
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Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Thu Jun 30 00:58:08 2022, in response to Re: Queens/Steinway Transit acquisition question, posted by BusMgr on Wed Jun 29 15:32:16 2022. The Manhattan terminal of route Q101 (and also of route Q60) is a relic from an era when a substantial concern was the erosion of farebox revenue of one company from service area intrusion by another. Route Q32 extends further into midtown Manhattan because its original operator, Fifth Avenue Coach, overlapped the service onto its other routes on Fifth Avenue, and did not have the same degree of concern of revenue (although in leading up the inauguration of the route, Fifth Avenue made clear that there would be no free transfer between the news Queens route and uptown points along Fifth Avenue . . . an extra dime would be required for such travel). That interest of farebox erosion is largely gone because of the expansion of free transfers (though there does remain a legitimate interest of NYCTA not having its farebox revenue eroded by MTABC, and vice versa).Thank you for the history as always! Legitimately, route Q101 (and route Q60) should be extended further into midtown Manhattan if that would better serve good transportation purposes (there are also reasons not to do so, such as the reliability of midtown traffic, but those reasons would apply equally to route Q32, which if real would justify cutting route Q32 back to Second Avenue). Whether such midtown extension would also be along Fifth Avenue or elsewhere would properly be the subject of good transportation planning and analysis. And this is where we disagree. The Q32 and Q60 do well in Manhattan, and I agree that the Q60 should be extended to Columbus Circle, but I truly believe that service along Steinway Street can do much better than act as a poor duplication of the (R) to the outer fringes of Manhattan. On the other hand, I think that the 21st Street and Northern Boulevard corridors are both prime candidates for bus service between Western Queens and Manhattan (via the Queensboro Bridge or the Queens-Midtown Tunnel), and I firmly believe that both services would perform better than the Q101 does today. Many other areas with bus service are also "walkable" to a subway, but bus service is kept there as part of an attempt to lay out a reasonable grid of bus routes throughout the city. Subways provide limited stop service, while bus routes provide local service, and rarely have surface routes been eliminated because of a subway service being available (perhaps the greatest exception to that being the elimination of the surface route along McDonald Avenue). The extent of the grid within Long Island City is old, well-established, and remarkably regular. Elimination of service along Steinway Street would not be sensible. It's less so about the fact that the Q101 duplicates the subway, and more about the fact that it's shunned in favor of the subway, the routing not matching up with the demographics of the areas that the route serves, and the routing unnecessarily insulating Astoria and Steinway from Sunnyside, Greenpoint, etc, as if the 39th Street Railroad Bridge doesn't exist. For a little bit of contrast, the Bx4 in The Bronx duplicates the subway for just about the entirety of its route as well, but I would never suggest getting rid of it for that same reason since it serves a different demographic and is well utilized. Long Island City, Astoria, and Steinway have changed significantly within the past couple of decades. Both neighborhoods are now mostly comprised of Very Liberal Yuppies that rent instead of own, and pretty much only use public transportation to get to Manhattan or to the nearest subway that will get them to Manhattan, whichever is faster (which the Q101 is not compared to the (R) Train). Uber/Biking/Walking are pretty much used for everything else. I would never suggest getting ride of the Q101 as it is well utilized north of Broadway, and I actually think that no matter where it goes south of Broadway, buses will still empty out there because as I said before, it tends to be get to Manhattan as fast as possible or bust when it comes to public transit usage in that area. That being said, I still think it needs to revamped badly along with most of the other Q10X routes. I fail to see much connection between Steinway Street and the Brooklyn neighborhoods of Greenpoint and Williamsburg. The lack of connection is illustrated by neither the "G" train nor the B62 bus route being particularly well-patronized, and additional services connecting the two boroughs cannot be expected to do much better. Steinway Street has long been connected to Manhattan, and it seems unlikely that its redirection elsewhere (into Brooklyn) would improve its usage or performance. Steinway, Astoria, Long Island City, Sunnyside, and Greenpoint are all demographically similar. Williamsburg is almost as similar, but a lot of families live there along with Yuppies, so public transit is utilized for different reasons there. That being said, it's less about any cultural/demographic connection, and more about bettering the network by creating a new north-south link between Steinway and Williamsburg, as well as allowing riders from routes like the B44 and B60 to be able to get a two-seat ride to the popular shopping district along Steinway Street. I'm proposing this change with the mind frame of Steinway Street being a destination (which we all know it is) rather than a ridership base. Re: The B62, if the B62 isn't well-patronized, then what does that make the Q101? The Q101 quickly and directly connects a couple of Yuppie enclaves with one of the biggest job centers in the world in East Midtown, but yet gets half the ridership of the B62, is one of the bottom 10 local routes for MTA Bus even despite running 24/7, and barely gets more ridership than the Bx23, which is a subway feeder in the outer fringes of The Bronx. Whether there should be overnight bus service on Steinway Street is a good question, but part of the larger issue of overnight service generally throughout the borough. Overnight service should be reviewed in that larger context, and not in isolation as to route Q101 specifically. Steinway Street has a very vibrant nightlife, and is pretty much the nightlife center for Queens West of Woodside (although Vernon Boulevard is taking its place fast). I most definitely think that there should be overnight service on Steinway Street, but I'd run it as a shuttle between Broadway and Ditmars Boulevard, running Every 20 Minutes and meeting every arriving (E) train from Manhattan. |
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